Harry Wills fought 43 fights from 1919 to 1925 who really had a chance

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dempsey1234, Jun 9, 2016.


Page 15 of 16
  1. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    270
    Jun 25, 2012
    P, you gonna be slammed for this, but I admire your ba lls for standing up. I get slammed by everybody:lol::lol:
     
    dempsey1234, Jun 13, 2016
    dempsey1234, Jun 13, 2016
    #211
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,007
    48,100
    Mar 21, 2007
    This was an absolutely disgraceful post. It is nothing to do with my "interpretation". You were very specific in what you asked me. You said:

    "Weaver came in with a 21-9, with 5 ko losses, when he won the WBA HW title."

    You SPECIFIED when he won the title. You SPECIFIED 21-9, his record when he had his first title tilt. Now you are trying to say that "before his championship run" - which this is, anyway - is the key phrase, and that can mean when he fought Holmes; you are trying to sweep the fact that you SPECIFIED when he won the title and SPECIFIED 21-9, his record when he first won the WBA title. Honestly, how am I supposed to answer your question about his form when he fought Holmes when you SPECIFICALLY were talking about him when he fought Tate.

    Fun and games are fine, but when you flat-out lie about what you posted, that's over the line; it's a waste of my time, and a disgraceful way to post.

    :rofl OK



    It's not my interpretation; it's my reply to your SPECIFIC question.

    What you've illustrated is that you are trying to argue a man ranked the #4 best at his profession in the world is a journeyman. Which is almost as crazy as saying Wills is a journeyman.
     
    McGrain, Jun 13, 2016
    McGrain, Jun 13, 2016
    #212
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,007
    48,100
    Mar 21, 2007
    Not everybody, but lots of people.

    You have to wonder why.
     
    McGrain, Jun 13, 2016
    McGrain, Jun 13, 2016
    #213
  4. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    Lot of people have no clue.
     
    Perry, Jun 13, 2016
    Perry, Jun 13, 2016
    #214
  5. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,262
    Sep 5, 2011
    I concede.

    You just won the battle with all these quotes.

    But I think you lost the war.

    If Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Jerry Quarry, and Earnie Shavers can be described as "journeymen" then the term has no useful meaning in boxing at all.

    I accept that Wills is in the same class as Frazier and Foreman.

    The Frazier, by the way, of 1971 who was about to beat Ali.

    *All this shows how language evolves over the years and terms which once had substantial meaning can lose it in everyday usage.
     
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    #215
  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,435
    9,421
    Jul 15, 2008
    Excellent post. :good
     
    he grant, Jun 13, 2016
    he grant, Jun 13, 2016
    #216
  7. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,435
    9,421
    Jul 15, 2008
    Your arguments are ridiculously weak .. you refer to the Wills footage taken when he was 35 .. we have no footage of him in his prime.

    As far as the Firpo fight , he dominated Firpo, decking him twice and winning every round without ever being in danger .. to me that is more convoincing as a win than being knocked dow three times and saved from what should have been a disqualification loss.
     
    he grant, Jun 13, 2016
    he grant, Jun 13, 2016
    #217
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,262
    Sep 5, 2011
    "Wills footage when he was 35 . . we have no footage of him in his prime"

    Plus according to boxrec, Wills fought 753 rounds. We have PARTIAL footage of four rounds.

    This is sort of like opening the Bible and reading "In the beginning" and then claiming to be a Biblical expert.

    But your point-what would we think of Ali if we only had a couple of rounds with Shavers and Evangelista, and his last round with Holmes? and drew all our conclusions off of that.
     
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    #218
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,116
    Jun 2, 2006
    Wills dropped Firpo once ,when he hit him on the break .
    This content is protected
     
    mcvey, Jun 13, 2016
    mcvey, Jun 13, 2016
    #219
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,262
    Sep 5, 2011
    "chinny Weinert"

    Charley Weinert was stopped 8 times in 96 fights, or 1 in 12 fights, (or in 8.3% of his fights)

    Jess Willard was stopped 3 times in 34 fights, or closer to 1 in 11 fights (or in 8.8% of his fights)

    Yes, there are those on here who say Willard is "extremely durable"--why?
    because he lasted against a 37 year old Johnson?
     
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    #220
  11. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,262
    Sep 5, 2011
    "sparring partner"

    and Fitz defended his title against Jim Corbett's sparring partner, Jim Jeffries.

    and Sonny Liston defended his title against Ingemar Johansson's sparring partner, Cassius Clay.
     
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    edward morbius, Jun 13, 2016
    #221
  12. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    270
    Jun 25, 2012
    I hate to nitpick but there was only one KD, the rest forget about. Watch SRR, and Joe Louis at different stages of their career, the difference is that in the older SRR and Joe Louis, they were not as quick but you wouldn't say they were slow they were just slower. I believe Louis and Wills had about the same speed at that stage. Robinson and Louis' skill set was basically the same as when they were younger, their snap and reflexes were not the same as when they were younger, they couldn't take advantage of the openings that were there and didn't have the energy they once had to follow up on any advantages. Their reflexes speed and drive were gone but you could see flashes of what they were, Wills doesnt show any great skills like that. The reason I bring both up cos there is extensive vid's of both at different stages of their career. The one thing you clearly see is
    their skillset, they may be older, but the skills they had can still be seen even when they were older.

    https://youtu.be/7de626M-qKA

    Here is a 44yr old Robinson,
     
    dempsey1234, Jun 13, 2016
    dempsey1234, Jun 13, 2016
    #222
  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,262
    Sep 5, 2011
    "Robinson"

    Yes, and so Robinson looks good for such an old fighter. He also looks a ton better than Ali did against Holmes, or even Spinks. The point?

    "Louis"

    So your argument is Wills looks worse than Louis did in 1950 and 1951?

    I would only partially agree. I agree that Louis looks more skilled. Skills improved generally over the decades.

    But Louis looks quicker? Or more athletic?

    No.
     
    edward morbius, Jun 14, 2016
    edward morbius, Jun 14, 2016
    #223
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,116
    Jun 2, 2006
    I think there is a lot of substance to this post!
     
    mcvey, Jun 14, 2016
    mcvey, Jun 14, 2016
    #224
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,435
    9,421
    Jul 15, 2008
    I have absolutely no clue if you are critiquing my point or supporting it. Hilarious.
     
    he grant, Jun 14, 2016
    he grant, Jun 14, 2016
    #225
Page 15 of 16