Harry Wills fought 43 fights from 1919 to 1925 who really had a chance

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dempsey1234, Jun 9, 2016.



  1. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Wills blew his chance"

    Tex Rickard didn't think so.

    The New York Times, January 12, 1925

    "Tex Rickard ranks 90 leading boxers"

    "Says Wills tops Dempsey"

    "Rates him first because champion was inactive."

    "Rickard gives only complementary positions to Jack Dempsey and Benny Leonard at the top of the heavyweight and lightweight divisions, respectively, because of their inactivity during 1924. Dempsey did not defend his title at all, while Leonard was injured in his only important match, a bout at Cleveland with Pal Moran. Rickard makes it plain his rankings are based on last years actual performances, and on that basis, puts Harry Wills at the top of the heavyweights and Terris first among the lightweights."
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's "only an opinion."
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    A fighter without pretensions to great success. A fighter outwith the title picture. Unranked, and unlikely to obtain a ranking.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Rickard is often painted as the villain in all this, but he doesn’t seem to have been consistent in trying to obstruct Wills.
     
  5. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Exactly, yours, mine, and his all opinions based on the opinions of others:good
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Making all opinions equally (in)valid.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You can f*ck off for a start!

    Trouble makers R s!
     
  8. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I disagree but it's only an opinion. There are a lot of journeyman fighters who could give hell to anybody. Believe it or not there are many fighters who were not gifted with speed, power or skills. I will give you a good example(IMO) Carson Jones, a tried and true journeyman, went to your side of the pond and gave Kell Brooks all kinds of hell in their first fight. Kell's superior skills prevailed in their second fight.

    "A fighter without pretensions to great success. A fighter outwith the title picture. Unranked, and unlikely to obtain a ranking", This is only your opinion.
    I would say Jones did alright for himself in standing up to a
    vastly superior fighter and earning another fight with Kell.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, I know that.

    You asked me for it.
     
  10. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Oh, please you for one should know better. You can structure an argument based on opinions.
     
  11. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He may legitimately have feared race riots and being the cause of deaths, and the idea that "Washington" ordered him to prevent this fight could very well be true.

    Kahn painted him in a negative light on race, but in fact Rickard promoted fights with black fighters, both mixed matches and all-black matches, throughout his career. And boxers like Wills and Norfolk ended up financially secure after it was all over.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, I know that.

    But every time someone does so in a discussion with you, you will respond with "that's just your opinion."

    You did it twice in the last post you directed at me and a quick search reveals you've used the words 13 times in this thread.

    It's ridiculous. We know.
     
  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just on journeyman, there is a definition on Wikipedia

    "In boxing and mixed martial arts, a journeyman is a fighter who has adequate skill but is not of the caliber of a contender or gatekeeper. Hence, when applied to them, a 'journeyman' implies a fighter who is no longer a novice, and has the sufficient degree of boxing skill that my be expected from a professional, but who does not have the mastery possessed by the contenders."

    "Journeymen are said to have little or no expectation of winning fights against contenders or gatekeepers, but this does not preclude them from having a winning record against less skilled fighters."

    I don't know who wrote that,

    but it is precise about what most folks have always thought a journeyman boxer to be.
     
  14. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And you gave an invalid response based on your opinion this can go on and on. Besides I gave you an example what have you responded with?

    You seem to be stuck on what is a journeyman, IMO your response lacked knowledge of what a journeyman is and we are arguing if Wills was a journeyman. Since you have written many articles and should know, in your opinion what did Wills do that you are so enamored with from the clips, break it down for us.

    Then we can have dueling opinions.
     
  15. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Wills would have been an underdog in the betting"

    So was Tunney.

    This is exactly why there should be fights to determine who really is the best.