Harry Wills v Gene Tunney15rds?

Tunney would have been too fast for a slow moving Wills. I believe Tunney would have prepared to counter Wills habit of hitting and holding, and not get into a wrestling match which Wills was prone to do. Wills would have been frustrated by Tunney's quickness and punching ability and most likely have found a way out of getting stopped.

 

Tunney every day and Sunday.

 

Tunney was too fast, too smart.

 

Did Tunney ever fight any really big guys? 210 lbs + ????

 

Tunney and don't discount a late round stoppage win.

 

Tunney looks great on film but has an extremely shallow resume at this weight. Wills has a deep resume but is bolstered by victories over an earlier generation which was somewhat aged, and many contend, less skilled.

Despite the revisionist trend against Wills, I'm picking him to win by Dec.and score at least one KD.

 

Styles make fights. And I think Tunney has more trouble with Wills than with any other heavy of the twenties in a round for round, or scoring sense. Dempsey had a bigger punch than Wills and so had a better puncher's chance, but otherwise I think Wills would have been able to go with Tunney better.

The main reason is that Wills shows a good jab on the limited film we have. I assume he would use it. Because of Wills' size and reach, Tunney would be in there against a guy who possibly could hit him with a jab first. This will raise an entirely different problem than anyone we have on film.

All the film we have of Tunney is of short guys who eat his jabs and right crosses and have no answer, with Dempsey big enough but not trying to jab back and allowing Tunney to get off first all night.

Wills potentially has an answer with his jab, and while Tunney could handle Dempsey inside, Wills is a much bigger man, so who knows?

This would actually be a very interesting match.

My pick would be Wills when Wills was young.

Tunney in the 1924 to 1925 era, but Gene having a much tougher time than he had with Carpentier, Gibbons, or Dempsey in any round except the 7th of the second fight.

*on the styles make fights point. I think Wills style might have played into Dempsey's hands. But Tunney had the style for Dempsey. On the other hand, I think Wills has the equipment and style to give Tunney trouble.

 

"Tunney looks great on film"

yes.

 

The difference between Tunney's jab and Wills jab, is that Tunney snapped it and Wills stiff armed it. Wills is not much of a jabber, Tunney is. Another thing Tunney had movement Wills didn't. Tunney had more tools than Wills.
Nevermind Tunney's advantage in speed, he would've been too smart for Wills.

 

"Nevermind Tunney's advantage in speed, he would've been too smart for Wills."

We get this out of four minutes of film of Wills?

"Tunney had movement Wills didn't."

All kinds of small men are more mobile than big men. Doesn't mean in itself that they win a fight with the big man.

"Wills stiff-armed it" "Wills is not much of a jabber."

I don't think the Madden fight shows that. You really don't know how much Wills might have turned to his jab against a jab and mover like Tunney.

I admit it is hard to draw any conclusion off of four minutes of film.

*and speed conclusions are a bit dubious also, given that these films are almost certainly hand-cranked. About all I would conclude about how fast Wills was is that he looked faster than Firpo and he was fast enough that Madden wasn't really out-speeding him.

The Tunney-Dempsey film everyone has been watching is in my judgment clearly not running at natural speed.

I have no doubt Tunney would be faster than Wills, but how much faster? I don't think there is any way of telling off the limited hand-cranked footage.

 

Ed, now you cant tell if one guy is faster cos of the hand cranked film, sigh!

 

Dempsey1234

(just an aside--your posts are always a bit tough to understand as you mix up the quotes from the guy you are answering with your own comments. I'm don't know how to do this right either, so I will just put your thoughts in quotes. Hope folks can understand mine easily)

My comment you quote--"I have no doubt Tunney would be faster than Wills, but how much faster?"

Your answer--"Ed, now you can't tell if one guy is faster cos of the hand-cranked film."

Read what I said again. I said Tunney is faster because of his relative speed versus Dempsey compared to Wills relative speed versus Madden and Firpo, but the speed you see them moving at could vary as much as 25% or more from one film to another due to the variation caused by the hand-cranking.

Bottom line is judging quickness or speed would be the shakiest judgment on a silent film.

"Tunney had movement Wills didn't"

As the much smaller man, Tunney needs it, and it is what gives him his best chance here. I'm not certain why the tall, rangy Wills should be bouncing about the ring. It is obvious that Wills' style saves energy. He came up in the 20 round era.

"a small man is not gonna play into a bigger man's game, so movement is key"

As you said, obvious strategy. I'm not certain what your dispute with me on this is.

"Wills was not a jabber"

I counted seven jabs, of which six landed, in the two minutes of the Madden fight.

"Madden was getting off on a bigger, stalking Wills"

I didn't see Madden getting off much. His only effective punches were in clinches, if they were effective. Hard to say on this bad film.
I see here that you note that Wills actually fought Madden differently than Firpo. There was much less wrestling and inside stuff. He stalked him behind a long left jab and sometimes hook. Wills lands many more effective punches in this very short film clip than Madden did.

"let's say Wills turned to his jab" "Tunney would be bouncing right hands off of Wills head"

Tunney certainly did that with Dempsey. But Wills had reach on Tunney, I think, and a lot of height. Reaching him with right crosses might not be quite as easy and Tunney could expose himself to counters--and all that if he isn't put off his game by getting a left into his snout quite often.

I have never seen a clip of Tunney dealing with a guy who threw jabs at him. It changes the equation.