Harry Wills v Jim Jeffries .The Panther v The Grizzly Bear 15rds?

I used to talk to Nat Fleicher from Ring Magazine back in the early 70's I was a teen but boxing wise for my years (opinions have changed through the years) they had an office a few blocks form the Garden on 31st street NYC.

I loved that place (Ring Office) from the die cast fists (Primo Carnera tremendous) Liston etc. I would talk to Nat who loved Ketchel, Kid,McCoy, Stanley Ketchel, Johnson Etc.,

Nat rated Johnson and Jeffries very high 1 & 2and also Sam Langford (who he rated #7 ATG heavyweight top 10) he had Fitz at 3 and Dempsey at 4 and Corbett5 then Joe Louis at 6 Tunney 8,Schmeling 9, Marciano 10 but he did not rate Wills

I dont agree with Nat but then again I did not see any of them fight other than film. Still a lot of old timers had different opinions and I am assuming it is fond childhood memories.

Funny how Nat & others did not rate Wills near Sam Langford, nor Johnson and Jeffries.

 

I don’t see how anyone can make a case for Jeanette over wills. A prime Jeanette fought to a draw with a very green harry wills. Doesn’t bode well for Jeanette’s chances vs prime wills

 

What did Jack Johnson think of Wills?

 

Here’s what Wills thought of Johnson


The following Harry Wills quote is an excerpt from pages 360-361 of Joe Botti's book about Joe Jennette:

"Jack Johnson was the meanest of the lot. Jack was a smart fellow in many ways, but in others he showed no sense at all. He got so stuck on himself he had the idea everyone should fall down and worship him. Johnson always wanted to show off. He wanted to attract attention all the time, and he didn't care much how he did it. As long as he made people talk about him he was happy, and he never stopped to think that he was doing himself more harm than good.

"If you were a young fellow trying to get along, Johnson would not show you anything. He would rather show you up instead. Take the way he treated me when we were training to fight Jim Flynn in Las Vegas. I was a young fellow then who didn't know much, but anxious to get somewhere.

"Jack Curley, who was promoting the match and looking after Johnson, offered me a job as sparring partner. I was glad to take it because I needed the money and thought I might learn something from the champion. There was a big crowd looking on the day we put on the gloves. From the start, Johnson tried to make me look silly so he could laugh at me in front of the crowd. Remember, at this time, although I was broke, I had something of a reputation, earned through hard fighting , and a boxer's reputation is his only asset.

"Anyone but Johnson woudl have thought of that and acted accordingly. All Johnson
coudl think of was his desire to make me look foolish.

"Of course I expected to be hit and hit hard. I would not haveminded that, for I was strong and tough, and it is all in the game. But when Johnson stopped straight boxing and tried to make me look bad, I got kind of sore. Johnson was very proud of his strength. He thought there was no one in the ring his equal in that respect or in any other, for that matter. One of his favorite tricks was to grab your arms, waltz you around andlaugh, and then suddenly let you go and uppercut you.

"Well, after he tried that on me a few times, laughing andkidding with the crowd at my expense, I decided I'd see which was the stronger of the two. The next time he grabbed my arms to shove them back, I set myself and threw him across the ring. That wiped the grin off his face in a hurry, for the crowd began to laugh at him instead of with him, something that makes a big difference to these babies who like to show off. Having lost his goat, Johnson began to slug. That was playing right into my hands, for I was tougher and a harder hitter. After mixxing it for a few moments he began to get the worst of it so he clinched and held on, meanwhile trying to laugh it off.

"That was the only time I boxed with Johnson. He told Curley to pay me off and let me go. He didn't want anyone in his camp he could not handle as he pleased. That incident is typical of Johnson's whole career. He never cared how he hurt other peoples' feelings as long as he could make himself look big. Showing off was the cause of all his troubles. At the same time I would like to say right here that if Johnson did not act right when he won the title he was made to pay dearly. Although he could have avoided the trouble that came his way, he was not treated fairly either. I think that all intelligent persons will agree with me that neither Johnson nor the people that undertook to run him out of boxing have any reason to be proud of the way they acted."
From The Baltimore Afro-American. June 13, 1931. Page 14.

 

A prime Jeanette actually had two chances against a very green wills in 1913 and 1914 and couldn't beat him in either!

This doesn't bother you a bit?

 

I would have guessed the general dislike of ones that came after him too. Is there any 3rd part accounts of their sparring?

Though it seems they may have made up as he was at some of the exhibitions with Johnson and Jeannette.

This content is protected

 

I was in that office a few times back in 1981 or so .. remember it as a hole in the wall filled w boxing history ...

 

Jeffires actually did better vs the larger fighters he meet as they were less mobile. Wills is not fast handed, a bit thin in the lower body and had just an okay chin. His skills disappointed me on film and bit and I've seen him three times.

Wills was a good fighter with size and power who cleaned up, especially later in his career as his best competition was older, but I do not think he could deal with a tank like Jeffries.

Jeffries would be the faster-handed fighter here, and owner of quicker feet. More durable and probably the better hitter as well.

I do not think Wills could take Jeffries body shots or hook and would be out inside 10 rounds.