Harry Wills, where does he belong?

no he did well against unskilled slow clusmly big oafs, which is not what wills was at all. he was a very talented fast hard hitting big heavyweight, and if firpo could practically knockout dempsey if not for the typewriter, wills has a strong chance at beating jack.

 

I have been looking at Wills record.He fought all the names of his era except for Dempsey ,Godfrey ,and Willard,but close inspection tells us thatLangford whom he fought 16 times was past his best.
their first fight in 1914 was won by the 25lbs heavier Wills ,Langford was 31,they rematched 6 months later and langford kod himin14 rds,then beat him on points a month later.After this they swap winsWillstakes the next two fights by dec,but is kod in 19rds inthe next fight by an allmost 33 year old Sam,Wills takes the next two,and Langford manges a draw after this at the age of34 this is his last hurrah,Wills dopminates the rest of the series they meet 7 more times one a no contest , Wills wins alll the others,but Langford is now35 and 36.Clearly Wills dominated an OLD Langford.Like wise Jeanette ,Wills fought him3 times ,with 3 wins,but Jeanette was 34,35 and 40 ,years old.Against McveyWills had 5 fights winning2 losing 2 ,one no contest,Mcvey at 30 and 31 wins the first 2Wills takes the next 2 when Mcvey is31 and 34 ,they have a nocontest when Mcvey is 36 which results in them both being barred for life from Philadelphia.The other Black challengers Wills beat such as Jeff Clark follow a similar pattern Clark at 272 draws the first then aged 30to 35 loses the remaining 8.Wills has ako in 1 rd ovwer Denver Ed Martin ,but Martin was 40 years old ,it was his last fight,Likewise Gunboat Smith was kod in1 rd in Cuba ,Smith was 34 and as he said "I went down for the boat ride".A ko over Kid Norfolk is on Wills resume ,but Norfolk was 36 lbs lighter.Win s over Dempsey opponent Firpo by nws dec in 12 is good ,but Dempsey had destroyed Firpo in 2 rds a year earlier.Similarly Wills win over Bartley Madden by dec was topped a year later when Tunney kod Madden in 3 rds.To sum up I see a lot of good names on Wills record ,but the majority of thre Black challengers he beat were past their best the series with Bill Tate gave Wills 4 wins out of7 fights ,but Tate was ona losing record of 18 -20-3 and was primarily known as a Dempsey sparring partner. Wills record on closer inspection doesnt look as good as a cursory glance would show .I exclude his losses to Sharkey and Uzcudun ,because he was clearly past his best ,but then so were ,many of those he beat.Dempsey smokes him imo.

 

Fulton wasnt slow or clumsy,he was a fast sharp shooting jabber who could hit,what happened when he fought Dempsey?

 

Just like to add that having gone over Wills record and opponents I rate Langford above him and Mcvey at least on a par,and Jeannete equal if not better.Going further back I would rate Peter Jackson over Wills too.

 

Langford said Wills had his number. He was too big and too good. Maybe at the start of their series Langford was already a bit long in the tooth but he was still kicking the **** out of everyone else. That being said I have Sam a better all time pound for pound as he was half Wills size ... however, Dempsey has a huge asterick next to his name for ducking this guy ... it was terrible and while it does not matter to average fans, historians to the man know the facts ...

 

But did Dempsey duck Wills? He signed to fight him but Rickard ,afraid of a backlash similar to the Jeffries Johnson fight didnt want to promote it.Likewise Commissioner Muldoon ,while publicly pushing for the match ,privately discouraged it.It's a shame it never happened ,not least because I think Dempsey would have solidified his reputation with the critics and fans and earned himself a place in the top 5 ,which is where he is for me.It was an injustice to Wills and ultimately harmed Dempsey too,probably more than Wills who maybe rated higher than he deserves,if people look closely at how old the opponents were in his "best wins".

 

Dempsey allowed Wills to be avoided ... remember this was not for a year or two, it was his whole time as champ ... somewhere in there Dempsey had to think why fight this guy if I do not have to ... Dempsey was not a trained ape. He did what he wanted to do like leave Kearns ... I just don't buy it ... just like I don't write Wills off as another slow, easy mark ... SQ is dead on and I agree.

 

I don't think he would be easy for Dempsey at all ,possibly he tioughest defence ,but a winning ione .I think Dempsey ,up until he married Estelle Taylor was in thrall to Kearns and did pretty much what he told him , even aping the way he dressed.

 

if wills is a smaller wlad with more tricks,than dempsey is a taller, lighter,tyson with more heart/wills liked to wrestle and nobody as ive stated wrestled with dempsey and stayed standing

 

Dempsey had his best fights against Big Stronge Slow HW's so I would be Confadent in him Beating Wills