Hart v Johnson - post fight report

That is the most probable scenario, it's just too bad he threw out the sheet music the ref gave him before the dance.

He did learn a valuable lesson out of it- if you're going to coast, at least knock the guy out at the end of things and don't give them the chance to screw you (not that the Hart fight was necessarily a screw job).

 

See my post on page 2 where Jeffries ,on being interviewd BEFORE the Hart /Johnson fight was adamant he would NOT fight Johnson should he win.

 

Dec. 1963 article "The case for and against Marvin Hart" reprinted in the June 1989 issue of Boxing Illustrated:

Johnson, in his autobiography In The Ring And Out says surprisingly little about the fight, and such remarks as he did make are caustic: "The fight was not an auspicious one for me, as Hart got the decision, owing, as Tad, the famous sportswriter says, to the fact that in his excitement the referee pointed to the wrong winner." Later, however, Jack, who never was one to heap accolades on an opponent, did admit: "I don't know of any fighter who was better than me when I was in my prime. But there was one who really beat me... and he beat me good. I'm talking about Marvin Hart."

I think you are confusing what the French press said about Langford knocking Johnson down.


Can you show any proof the boxing Illustrated article was mistaken?

 

There was never a big sum of money for the fight. Jeffries did return to fight Johnson later on when the money was there. If Rickard offered Jeffries 100k to fight Johnson in 1905, I think the fight would happen.

Jeffries was a fool to come back fat, and 5 years removed from the game.

I wonder if Jack O'Brien out boxing Johnson ( but not out slugging ), or Ketchel knocking Johnson down in 1909 had anything to do with Jeffries coming out of retirement.

 

There was never a big sum of money for Jeffries to defend against Munroe in fact it was postponed once because of lack of interest,and Jeffries himself said he lost money on the lamentable defence.
He still fought him ,because he was a gimme defence.

As early as October 1904 the manager of the Century Athletic Club offered Jeffries a $15,000 guarantee to fight Johnson, this was over 4 years before Burns received the unheard of sum of $30,000 to fight Johnson ,and he had to travel to Australia to receive that.
Jeffries did not agree to take Johnson's challenge because he was **** scared of losing his crown to a man of colour, which he himself said in print.
" I will not take a chance of losing the championship to a Negro"

"When there are no more white challengers left to fight, I will retire". Jeffries would not have fought Johnson in 1905, if he had been offered a million $.
That is why he retired. Get your tongue out of his arse.

 

Thanks for that post mate, a bloody beauty, seems that Hart was not the BUM portrayed by later writers. ----

I haven't heard Hart called that before.

 

Primary source for your article?

In" Mes Combats", the article attributed to Johnson, the anonymous writer claims that Johnson stated Greggains was bribed by gamblers to render the decision in Hart's favour. It also stated that Johnson knocked Hart out of the ring in an early round.
This was reprinted in the Feb 1973 edition of Boxing Illustrated in an article by David Nicolaou,entitled ,"Marvin Hart ,The Fighter And The Man."

An article written in the June 1966 edition of Boxing Illustrated by Harold U Ribalow entitled " Jack Johnson The First King" , gave this explanation for Johnson's defeat by Willard.

"The facts were easy to discover Johnson had been promised $30,000 at the weighing in and the money had not been forth coming.

The promoter then had promised to give the money to Johnson's wife,[Ruth Cameron,[he even gets her first name wrong,] seated at ringside.

For 20 rounds Johnson hit Willard at will ,making him a punching bag.After 25 rds,Johnson helda huge lead but kept looking around.

Finally he caught his wife's eye and she nodded:she had received the money.

In the 26th rd Johnson caught a couple of punches and rested under the hot sun for the count of 10".
Point being ,if it was printed in Boxing Illustrated it must be true right?
WRONG! atsch

NEXT!

 

A few things.


1 ) I am pretty sure $15,000 was less than Jeffries made in several title defenses.


2 ) Can you post the link on the Centruy Atheletic club so I can see what type of gurantee was offered. Even if such an offer was out there in October 1904, it quickly went away when Johnson laid an egg vs. Marvin Hart just a few months later in 1905.:deal


3 ) Jeffries was champion did fight Griffin for money, so to say he would not enter the ring vs. Black Men as champion in a prize fight is a false assumption. Had Griffin somehow managed to score the upset KO, he's the next champion.

 

Where is your source to claim the BI article on Hart was bogus? You don't have one. You are a fool.:deal Johnson often told lies. What does it matter if he said the Willard fight was fixed. It was not.

You have no point! Many sources over the history make mistakes. As I have said before you simply pick and choose which ones to use, and like some two bit hooker at low tide will come back to that source when you need it...even if the source was " anonymous "

I can't wait to see what's NEXT!

 

I cannot post a link to the CENTRUY ATHELETIC CLUB, as it never existed. However, an easy link for the Century Athletic Club can be found on Box Rec including the date of the guaranteed offer,[ it is guarantee ,not gurantee], it was 18th October 1904, immediately after Johnson had kod Denver Ed Martin.
This was 5 months before the Hart fight during which time Jeffries ignored it.
I did not say Jeffries would not fight blacks in defence of his title HE said it!


Oakland Tribune, March 27

New York, March 27
Asked if he would meet Jack Johnson in
the event of the negro defeating Marvin
Hart at San Francisco, Jeffries said
"No; I'm not fighting skunks as yet, not
while there are white men In the field.
I'm not going to discuss Johnson's abilities
as a boxer. He may be a wonder and
all that, but if any one Is to take my title
I want that man to be of my own color.

NEXT!

 

Where is your source that an article with no named author, is correct?
The onus is on you to prove provenance .not me.:huh

The whole point is that Johnson never said those words that you attribute to him, how much clearer must the point be made to you?

GOD YOU ARE PROFOUNDLY STUPID.atsch
I gave you two examples of pure balderdash that were written and published in Boxing Illustrated ,neither were anonymous, both had named writers, yours did not.Why should an unamed source from a reprint that you furnish be anymore accurate?

Adam Pollack has stated his belief that Johnson deserved no less than a draw against Hart, everyone except you, accepts his research.


PRIMARY SOURCES are required.on the subject of which ,you still have not produced a single ONE that shows Burns was ill/suffering a jaundice, or asked for a postponement of his fight with Johnson.