HAS ALEXANDER POVETKIN BEEN UNDERESTIMATED THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER?

After you said that, I looked at Povetkin's pre-Chambers record, he has 14 fights, won 10 of them by knockouts. And you're saying he wasn't dangerous?

 

Yeah, imo, PED usage brings someone down, but the PED matters. LoD says he should be treated like Miller, but Miller used far more severe PEDs, HGH which is the most severe PED, and EPO, which is the best cardio enhancer. He also got busted rightfully three times whereas Pov got busted legitimately only once. Povetkin was initially caught with a ped that was legal up until like a month before he was busted, that was banned for west-east political reasons. The other time he got banned for a SARM that he did take, intentionally or not.

Even RJJ failed with actual steroids multiple times, he's treated about the same as Povetkin. If Pov is treated a little better, good, his violations were a little less severe.

 

I wrote that he did not look dangerous in that fight. It was a step up bout on HBO as Chambers was being hyped up as unsung contender, which he obviously was not. Povetkin always was skilled and had great pedigree. He legitimately was good.

But his later career is discredited for obvious reasons. You can't just wave away two peds busts inside a year.

 

Do you mind doing the math for me?

The way I have it and this is very simple math by the way which may be incorrect. Huck gets excluded 4vs4
Ortiz beats Whyte, Chagaev, Chambers, Takam,4x2=8
Helenius beats Chagaev 1
Stiverne beats Chagaev 1
10 points for Wilder

Whyte beats Helenius and Stiverne 2
Chagaev doesn't beat anyone 0
Chambers beats Helenius and Stiverne 2
Takam beats Helenius and Stiverne 2
6 points for Povetkin

 

One of the best heavies not to win a world title unless you count the WBA regular belt as a legitimate world title. That would also mean Trevor Bryan was a world champion.

 

Getting busted two fights in a row makes you a habitual user. Basically, the fighter isn't willing to atone from his mistake and/or lacks the self belief that he can win without the chemicals. That's what Miller & Povetkin have in common, although I agree that the vat of chemicals Miller ingested definitely is worse.

The first bust was questionable after further review, but the bottom is that he did test positive. And no, it was not put on the prohibited list a month before the fight. It was much earlier. Note also that Lou DiBella complained in the lead-up that Povetkin's team was stalling on the start of drug testing. I wonder why? And if you have that outcome, the last thing you do is "accidentally" take more substances in your next fight. Povetkin is an obvious drugs cheat.

Jones tested positive once to my knowledge, against Richard Hall. Was there another fight? You said "multiple".

 

I was incorrect on the matter of Jones failing multiple times. I really have to begin Googling before I post.

Also, my mistake, it was two months, not one month. They began requiring testing for meldonium in March of 2016, and Povetkin tested positive in May of 2016.

I will say paste this on the matter of meldonium. Since you agree that it's not as severe of a PED as steroids/hgh/epo, it's not really relevant to our division, but it may be useful for other readers:


"The drug was invented in the mid-1970s at the Institute of Organic Synthesis of the Latvian SSR Academy of Sciences by Ivars Kalviņš.[88][89][90] Kalviņš criticized the ban, saying that WADA had not presented scientific proof that the drug can be used for doping. According to him, meldonium does not enhance athletic performance in any way, and was rather used by athletes to prevent damage to the heart and muscles caused by lack of oxygen during high-intensity exercise. He contended that not allowing athletes to take care of their health was a violation of their human rights, and that the decision aimed to remove Eastern European athletes from competitions and his drug from the pharmaceutical market.[91][92] Liene Kozlovska, the former head of the anti-doping department of the Latvian sports medicine center, rejected claims that the ban is in violation of athletes' rights, saying that meldonium is dangerous in high doses, and should only be used under medical supervision to treat genuine health conditions. She also speculated that Russian athletes may not have received adequate warnings that the drug was banned – due to the suspension of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency in late 2015.[93]

Forbes reported that anesthesiology professor Michael Joyner, at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, who studies how humans respond to physical and mental stress during exercise and other activities, told them that "Evidence is lacking for many compounds believed to enhance athletic performance. Its use has a sort of urban legend element and there is not much out there that it is clearly that effective. I would be shocked if this stuff [meldonium] had an effect greater than caffeine or creatine (a natural substance that, when taken as a supplement, is thought to enhance muscle mass)."[94] Ford Vox, a U.S.-based physician specializing in rehabilitation medicine and a journalist reported "there's not much scientific support for its use as an athletic enhancer".[95]

Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said "There's really no evidence that there's any performance enhancement from meldonium – Zero percent".[96]

It was mostly banned for political reasons, with the goal of getting political support to make sure Russia could not compete as a nation at the 2016 Olympic games and to remove Russian athletes who had chances of winning major events.

 

Povetkin was the best HW of this century so far, who never, as far ass I know, got a belt.

He was much better than a few who did.

 

Resume-wise he was better than all but a few. He has a far better resume than Vitali, for example.

 

Very underrated, just because he is eastern european and did not have hype, when others half of his quality had huge praise.


I think he would be competitive in every era of HW division.