I’ve seen it a few times been a while but despite the bad start I felt Frazier won it by a couple of points.
I remember when that fight happened in 1966, I saw it again on the internet, I thought in all fairness to Oscar, he won it because of the two knockdowns, but it was close, Joe fought his way back. I think that was the reason that his manager Yank Durham kept him away from Muhammad Ali, who was champion at the time. Durham also kept Joe out of the WBA Tournament in 1967, because he would have had to meet Bonavena again, and Durham was also afraid that Frazier might have to fight Jerry Quarry or Karl Mildenberger. Yank was like a father to Joe.
wow amazing, you are lucky to have lived through that era. I envy you. Yank was a great figure to Joe. Too bad he couldn't keep Frazier away from Foreman.
I remember reading that he was ready to throw in the towel in that fight, before the referee ended it in round 2. Too bad he passed away, Eddie Futch took over for Yank, training Joe.
With the New York scoring by rounds, the decision was close but probably okay. if 10-point-must system had been in use Bonavena would have won the second round 10-7, and got a close decision.
Excellent and close fight - personally I think Frazier won it both on rounds and on the ten point must system, although using the latter I wouldn't argue with a draw. I don't think Oscar quite did enough to win it outright. I think he missed a trick in the second round, though. He had Frazier in absolutely dire straits after the two knockdowns and hurt him again soon after, looking like he could finish it. There was still quite a bit of time left in the round, but from memory he backed away in the last minute or so, shifted to the back foot and didn't really push for the finish as much as you might expect. I find it a bit curious that he did this as it was early in the fight and he'd still have been fresh, so wouldn't have punched himself out. The fight was very early in Frazier's career (I think he'd only been pro a little less than a year) and was his first big step up, and as others have said was enough of a scare to make Yank realise that Frazier wasn't ready for the upper echelons of the division yet. Good management to put him in with Machen and Jones in his next two fights: two decent names and respected contenders, good enough for Frazier to learn from and keep his reputation intact, but two guys also just coming off their best and lower risk.
On the 10 point must system, I scored this fight a draw. Frazier was close to being stopped but his own words. While Oscar could hit, he wasn't in the class of Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Liston, Shavers, or the other punchers that do not appear on Frazier's resume.
This is absolutely untrue. Durham kept Frazier out of the tournament because Frazier had already obtained his #1 ranking prior to the tournament meaning he was next in line for a title shot. They stayed out of the tournament in protest that their title shot would get kicked down the road. Durham wasnt afraid of Quarry or Mildenberger or Bonavena in the least. Frazier had already had a heated sparring session with Quarry the year before the tournament and kicked his ass, knocking Quarry's teeth through his lip and forcing Quarry's handlers to pull him out. Frazier defended his title against Bonavena less than a year after winning it and dominated. Im not sure why you think they would have feared Mildenberger. Maybe they feared German officiating but what in Mildenberger's career would have scared them?
Joe Frazier's management was very sound, Yank knew what his fighter could handle at that point in his career, Joe was rated no.1 contender in 1967, and was against Frazier fighting Muhammad Ali for the title, saying Joe was too green for Clay. Many in the media were saying Ali would be stripped of his license and title. And also that Ali might be going to prison.
I did read this article years ago, you may be right, the German officiating may have had something to do with it. But very good info.
