Has Bob Fitzsimmons Got A Legit Claim As The Gretest Fighter Of All Time?

Every measurable sport has improved, not just sprinting but everything. Boxing is more complex than just being the physical best, but technique has also improved

We also have to remember to become a champion you (usually) have to beat a champion, so in essence attempt to improve on the champion thats there. Now yes champions maybe past prime when they get beat but generally the quality of champion should improve in theory. This wont always happen but as a trend could do

It should also be noted starting as a MW and going up to beat small cruserweights (which is all Fitz did) is no more impressive than being a MW and beating cruserweights today

James Toney achieved more than Fitz by a landslide in terms of the quality of the opposition he beat and Toney would outbox Corbett too

 

1. All types of running records from marathon to the 100m have improved DRASTICALLY. Powerlifters and strongmen have improved DRASTICALLY

Lets see what many many boxers have improved on Fitz:

A. if you want to measure fitness, many boxers run 1/2 marathons faster than Fitz, most are stronger.

B. Most are way faster than Fitz

C. Most throw many more punches a round than Fitz

D. Nearly all have better technique, better defensive techniques, better lateral movement, better combination punching

2. Fitz beat a 183lb who wasnt a puncher and didnt have great technique, other MWs have beat much better and bigger fighters than Corbett and Jones/Toney both beat better and much bigger HWs. Patterson is also an ex-MW for the record, so was Ellis.

3. Toney would have easily beat everyone in Fitz's day including Corbett, Jeffries and fitz himself. I dont rate Toney that highly but hes an example of how boxing technique is far superior to what it was 110years ago

 

Dunno if i have to re invent this wheel but doz this newsgroup know about nat fleischer vs jim jacobs from the early/mid 1960 on this very topic??

 

No, but I would love to hear some insight.

 

1. Only because it proves the point that athletes in every sport have generally improved. Find me a measurable sport that hasnt significantly improved in the last 100years, you can't and you won't

2. Boxing was just garbage in the 1900s. It was in its infancy, men were smaller, weaker, less skilled. Then men Fotz beat were rubbish, they wouldnt be top 10 today and Fitz was rubbish himself. Whats more black men werent given equal opportunity and it was a mainly an American sport

3. Ruiz beats Corbett and Fitz, boxings moved on

4. It is correct, and fact is never worthless, the boxing skill of those men were sub-standard, Toney picks them all apart, Pavlik might well beat Fitz and Corbett himself

 

But still, what does this have to do with the subject at hand? You can only rate a fighter after what he does in his own time. Ranking Fitz by what you think he would or wouldn't accomplish today is almost as much as waste of time as ranking Pac by how you think he would do in a 100 years time.

Can't we just skip this dicussion and focus on what Fitz achieved in his own time and how that compares to what other ATGs achieved in their own time?

 

Oh **** this is gonne be time consuming, do you know who jimmy j was??
Do you know who Nat F was??

 

yes

 

1. Running, weight lifting, powerlifting, cycling, every single measurable sport. Fitness, speed, strength have all moved on in all sports, that is widely accepted. Technique in boxing has moved on, that much we know

2. I value quality of performance as 1 of the highest criteria. If we're not going to look at quality then likes of Ray Leonard isn't that great, but he was great because we can see how good he and the other Fab 5 are on on film

3. Thats right, glad you have figured out now

 

He didnt just lean back he was quite a good defensive boxer. He moved his head back and to the side but just enough to avoid the shot. His right hand was kept high for a parry, apperently he didnt seem to parry head shots with his left hand looking to parry the body shots with his left arm. Upon making you miss he would make you pay with punishing shots to head and body.

Also I definitly think Fitzsimmons is one of the greatest fighters that ever lived but i do not think he is the greatest but he is up there with your Henry Armstrong's, Harry Greb's etc... Meaning he could validly be rated the best ever.