Has Boxing Technique Been Better or Worse

Who would you say are the best technicians still active at a top level today? I can't think of any aside from PBF really, but don't have a very good grasp of today's scene on the other hand.

 

Andre Ward, but he is too young and unproven yet.....

 

I think it has been regressing since the early 90's. The lack of qualified trainers has had a big impact on that. Even a guy like Emanuel Steward and Freddie Roach have a somewhat one dimensional approach to boxing. Roach probably less than Steward, but he likes to utilize angles as opposed to upper body movement and counterpunching for defense.

 

Yeah, you had guys like Chavez, Whitaker, Kalambay, Nunn, McCallum, Holyfield, Toney and Bowe in their primes or close to it, and guys like DLH and Hopkins coming up. There was also a solid second tier in Camacho, Norris, Eubank, Watson etc. I'm hard pressed to find such skill at any other stage in boxing history.

Ok. So who were the ones who had left by that time? Futch and Clancy were in there a couple of more years and Dundee is there still. Is it the likes of Arcel you're thinking of?

 

There are still some good qualified guys around but they dont really get a chance to work with fighters. Futch was done in the mid 90's, but even a guy like Montell Griffin who wasnt the most skilled guy had a good skillset from Futch and got pretty far. Guys like George Benton and Archie Moore. Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas were avoided like the plague because of their discipline. Tommy Brooks is an excellent trainer but he doesnt work cheap. Guys like Ronnie Shields and Roger Bloodworth are also around and pupils of Benton, but I dont think too highly of those two guys. The Mayweathers are around and know boxing but their both nuts.

So really besides Steward and Roach, who were really pupils of Futch, there arent too many guys like that. You basically have a tree of life thats created less limbs over the years. Theres a lot of really big money fighters with very poor uneducated boxing corners these days and thats amazing. To see guys like Miguel Cotto go into his fight with Pacman with a second assistant who basically held the pads for him is pretty **** poor, and I highly doubt had Arum had Cotto fighting a rival promoters fighter he would have let that happen.

 

What do you mean by a qualified coach? Do you mean a very good coach? or are you talking about some sort of stupid government based (or something similar) qualification?

 

Qualified. In the past, you have a guy who carries the bucket and doesnt make a peep for years and years tagging behind a guy like Eddie Futch. They dont say **** in the corner and listen and learn and put in all the hard day work in the gym prepping the fighter for the fight. Then one day they gain enough knowledge to work with fighters on their own. That doesnt seem to happen anymore. You have a bunch of guys in the gym who all know the same thing, nothing, and they call themselves trainers because they know how to work the mitts.
I worked with Dundee in the 90s'. He didnt spend much time at all with the fighters in their day to day routine. He had assistants doing all the pad and prep work with the fighters, but he would come in and watch sparring and he would get a lot accomplished in a short amount of time with the fighters to work on with the assistants. Then he would go to the fight with the fighter and bring the assistant who worked with them. We had three assistant trainers.
I also spent time up in the Main Events gym. Benton and Duva were the main guys and they had three assistants working with fighters. Ronnie Shields, Roger Bloodworth and Tommy Brooks. These kind of guys came from a lineage of guys who knew their stuff. Archie Moore on down.

 

Quoted for truth. A big problem on the trainer front is trainers arent learning the craft first. They are just learning to work the mitts, learning that the jab is important so they should tell a fighter to use it, and learning to talk loud.

I believe we'll get good trainers back as more good fighters retire to become them. I think we'll see more Freddie Roach types emerge in the coming years. We've already got journeyman pro's retiring in the USA starting to make names for themselves as amateur coaches. I think that this may be the cycle we're on in America for now, till the sport bounces back.

 

A lot of trainers werent even competent fighters. Why are so few ex-champs dedicating themselves to prepping the next champs? It's pretty crazy that a journeyman like Roach is arguably the greatest boxing trainer in the world right now...

Sad that we don't have the years of experience of guys like this that warred for hundreds of fights...

This content is protected

 

I agree with LeftHook31, here in South America too, there is a great lack of trainers right now......Especially here in Brazil, people think boxing is just hands up and punch....

 

Some guys can see and understand the mechanics of boxing but they cant do it in the ring. The greatest trainers in history werent all particularly great fighters and I dont think there should be any parallel between the two, just that a qualified trainer should be taught and tutored under another qualified guy.

 

I agree with those saying that there are no more good boxing teachers around. Most coaches wanna show you one style if your tall and one if you're short but miss the details that truly make those styles effective. The coaches themselves were never taught any different so they only go by what they know which isn't much.

 

It is certainly hard to argue with the points being put up.

But dont you have to balance what is taught old school with all the modern nutrition and advancements that have been made in the area. I really think the biggest change is that the trainers place an emphasis on weight lifting and power instead of sparring and conditioning. Although of course sparring does still have its place, but it just seems that these things are what is considered most important by modern trainers. Actually it seems this way at all sports or at least most sports.

If this is the modern line of thinking, (whether it be because of changed conditions or just improvements), arent we saying that this is the more succesful way of training and that technique is only deteriorating not because trainers are getting worse but because it is less important than technique. this is because all sports must progress with modern nutrition and knowledge (see Athletics swimming etc.) this means that the same must be true for Trainers doesnt it. In fact i would have thought more so, because there is no denying that our knowledge of training is greater than it has been.

Anyway, my point is, that if you are agreeing that trainers have digressed, you must also agree that it is possible/likely that fighters have also digressed. And there is no reason why this should not apply to longer periods than the last 10 or so years, either.

 

It would be interesting to see how much space weight lifting take in today's training. The amateurs at my gym have weight lifting incorporated in their training, but it doesn't seem to take any time from sparring/technique. It's just that exercises with weights (deadlifts, clean-and-jerk, chins with a weight belt etc) are incorporated into already existing strength exercises.

I think lifting weights in boxing gets a bit dramatized on this forum. It's not about the regular exercises performed in a gym, bench press etc, but more about explosive movements such as clean-and-jerk and thrusts as well as traditional floor exercises (sit-ups, chins etc) with weights. And this is combined with classic strength building exercises without weights. It will probably enhance power and speed on the behalf of endurance to a degree, but it won't make boxers into body builders with gloves.

 

I dont know any trainers that preach weightlifting. You do see the top trainers and fighters with a strength and conditioning coach. These guys have them eating properly and doing sprints and exercises to maximize certain fitness aspects of boxing. None of it usually involved heavy lifting. I think thats certainly an advance in training methods.