Has Canelo Had Most Consistently Bad Scorecards In Championship Fights Of Any Fighter In History ?

Inoue's far more skilled than Clenelo.

 

It was. The judges had it 116-112, 117-111, and 114-114. Those are close scores.

And before you throw a hissy fit about that, lets remember that the difference between 117-111 and 114-114 is 3 close swing rounds.

What happened in Mayweather Canelo was similar to Bivol Canelo in that there were very few rounds that Canelo clearly won. Against Canelo, if you studied the closeness of the rounds, you'd know that Mayweather won less rounds clearly against Canelo than Bivol did. And Canelo kept more rounds close against Mayweather than he did against Bivol. Against Bivol, the maximum rounds I could give Canelo was 5. Against Mayweather, Canelo arguably won 6 or 7 rounds. But that doesn't mean I agreed with the 114-114 card. I've explained this. Because several of the rounds CJ Ross gave to Canelo in my view he didn't deserve to win, and on the contrary, several of the rounds Ross gave to Mayweather (like round 4) in my view he didn't deserve to win. So I didn't find that card reasonable due to the specific rounds she gave each fighter.

I thought Mayweather won the match pretty clearly, but on a round by round basis, you can make the case that Canelo won 6 or 7 rounds. I personally gave Canelo 4 rounds. Specifically rounds 2, 3, 4, and 10. But it should be noted, so you understand, that each one of those were very close and could be argued for Mayweather as well. I scored rounds 6 and round 12 even. So I had Mayweather winning narrowly, but several of the rounds Mayweather won he won clearly by a pretty wide margin, while the rounds that Canelo won were extremely tight.

So that's what happens in boxing, when you have one fighter who wins more rounds clearly, and overall performed better, but the other fighter keeping a lot of rounds close where judges have to split hairs to decide who won them. That's what happened in Mayweather Canelo and why, although I had Mayweather winning narrowly, I do consider it a clear win for Mayweather. In the case of the Bivol match, the first 4 were extremely close, and Canelo clearly won the 9th round, but outside of those 5 rounds, the other 7 rounds were pretty clear for Bivol. So in both these matches I thought Canelo clearly lost, but on a round by round basis in terms of scoring they were both very close matches.

And for the people who disagree, which seems to be the vast majority of boxing fans, which is fine. I would just say that to each his own. I am happy to be in the minority who thought those were close matches. And there are plenty of scorers on this very website who like to play the "I'm in the majority" card when it comes to these two fights, but in other cases the shoe has been on the other fight. In Canelo GGG 3, for example, some of the same people who mock me for seeing those matches as close, when the majority see them as one-sided, see Canelo GGG 3 close and agree witht he judges there, where the vast majority of media and fan scorecards had that far wider than the judges had it.

So it's not as if those who disagrees with my scoring are always in the majority. Canelo GGG 3 taught us that, sometimes, they are in the minority and I'm in the majority. The one thing about me is that I don't give in to peer pressure, I don't score fights a certain way just to appease the popular crowd or to "fit in". I scored those as accurately and as fairly as possible. Feel free to disagree and if you really wanna have a discussion about it, explain why, but the petty bickering is unnecessary. Canelo haters try to label me a fanboy because I had Canelo's 2 losses close, or the draw with GGG a Canelo win. My view of these matches shouldn't get your panties all up in a bunch. I would advise you to simlpy live and let live. I get that I'm in the minority in how I scored them, and I could care less about that. What I would say to anyone who call me a fanboy though for my view of any of Canelo's matches simply aren't playing with a full deck. You need to get your head out of your ass and realize that scoring is subjective and that your way of scoring isn't the be all end all. Group think and confirmation bias is very prevalent when it comes to Canelo matches. For whatever reason, he's a polarizing figure and in my view, most fans do not know what to look for when scoring his matches. But that's just how I see it. Don't get caught up in the mindless drama of scorecard disagreements. Everyone has their own view of what happened inside a squared circle and that's not gonna change.

 

As he should have been. Plant was competitive, arguably won some rounds, but he was rightly losing on the cards.

And just so you understand, the average fan scorecard had Canelo ahead against Plant :

https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/saul-alvarez-vs-caleb-plant

So this wasn't a case that the fans differed from the judges. Those fan cards are evidence that you're trying to spin what happened in a way that doesn't represent what happened. Plant was not clearly winning, on that website, it shows the fans overwhelming having Canelo ahead. So no, it was not corrupt to have Canelo ahead of Plant. The fans overwhelmingly had Canelo ahead there.

 

This thread is a stern warning that sensible stylistic choices and cultured prose doesn't make up for the underlying madness of the message that is being encoded.

 

I don't have a problem, but I recognize that I'm in the minority there. I also know that many Pacquiao fans thought Mayweather Pacquiao was much closer than the judges had it. Some argued Pacquiao deserved to win. Hell Bob Arum infamously and delusionally claimed he thought Mayweather Pacquiao was a draw.

The facts are that Mayweather Pacquiao was more one-sided than Mayweather Canelo. Fans and media are understandably less willing to score Mayweather Pacquiao as wide as Mayweather Caneo because of expectations, because a ton of Pacquiao fans put their credibility on the line beforehand boldly predicting that Pacquiao would beat Mayweather. When it didn't happen, they tried to save face and scored it closer than it actually was. That means they gave Paquiao any remotely close round, which is the same thing people are accusing me of when it comes to Canelo. The difference is, Pacquiao looked horrible that night, was fighting with an injured shoulder, and it was a very unevently boring fight. When Canelo fought Mayweather, no one expected Canelo to win, and expectations do indeed play a big role in fan scoring. And Mayweather Canelo, however you scored it, was a far more stylistically interesting and competitive match than Mayweather Pacquiao, which also should be taken into account when we discuss which match was closer.

 

And yeah. Crazy to think about how corrupt his cards were. The best advice for young boxers is: sell tickets. It's a guarantee of the establishment dotting on you.

 

It is crazy to think that. Canelo is way better in the ring than many fans give him credit for. They try to generate controversy by arguing the judges score his fights in accurately, when really, they're just not paying close enough attention. As BCS8 accurately pointed out, Canelo has a eye pleasing style which tilts rounds in his favor in the eyes of the judges. Fans on the other hand have their own Canelo detracting agenda which is why so many fans claim corruption and disagree with the scoring of his matches.

 

I agree. Defeating Canelo with a 117-111 scorecard is close. That judge didn't know what to do as the funds hadn't hit his account yet.

Citing 114-114 as a "close" card condemns your very words and proves that Canelo gets scorecards consistently in his favor.
Anyone with at least one good eye could see that Canelo barely won a round in that fight. Maybe two. He was comprehensively
schooled by Floyd.

 

Sure there is. I studied the match very closely, and there were a ton of swing rounds in that match. Canelo didn't win many rounds clearly, but he kept a majority of the rounds close, which explains the scoring.

Well there were about 6 or 7 rounds that you could score to Canelo, anotherwords 6 or 7 rounds were very very close. But that doesn't mean you should score that many rounds for Canelo. Giving the same fighter close round after close round when the other fighter won more rounds clearly creates controversy and doesn't result in an accurate score. See Kovalev Ward 1.

That's not entirely accurate. Some fans definitely saw it as competitive. Not that many compared to those that didn't, but enough that I'm not the only one who saw it as competitive. I mean it objectively was competitive. And if you listen to Mayweather's comments after the match, there's no doubt that he knew he was in a tough fight. I mean he praised Canelo, said he'd be Champion again, etc. Mayweather himself was very impressed with Canelo, which only makes sense if it was competitive.

The problem with Mayweather Canelo is, in my view, that fans were incredibly biased in favor of Mayweather. Due to expectations, hype, all kinds of other factors. I've already gone into the reasons why countless times. The amount of fanboys riding Mayweather's nuts that night and giving him any remotely close round against Canelo then acting like it was easy to score was pretty blatant if you were paying attention. I find it incredibly delusional to claim that Mayweather Canelo was one-sided. Frankly anyone with that view, majority or not, imho doesn't know what they're watching and wouldn't know a close competitive match if it smacked them in the face. (and you can call me delusional for thinking the opposite of what you think, and that's fine, the delusional often call those who disagree with them delusional, and it works both ways)

Lets try this. How did you scored Canelo GGG 3? Did you agree with the judges, that it was only 7-5 or 8-4 Canelo. Or was that a one-sided clear victory for Canelo? How did you score it?

Another question. How did you score Canelo Plant? Were the judges reasonable in having Canelo ahead?

 

Funny someone else just said 117-111 isn't close. I think 117-111 can be close or one-sided depending on how close the rounds actually were. The score itself doesn't prove or disprove how close or competitive a fight was. 117-111 could be close or one-sided depending on who had more rounds that were clear. If someone wins 9-3 but 3 of the rounds he won were won by a hair, then it's obviously a close fight. If someone wins 9-3 but only 3 of the rounds were close, and the fighter who had 117 won 9 rounds clear, while the other guy won 3 close rounds, then it's pretty one-sided. That's how boxing works. You can have a fight that is close on the cards, but clear in terms of who performed better. That was the case with Mayweather Canelo and plenty of other fights. Canelo kept a lot of rounds close, but didn't do enough to convincingly win enough rounds to reasonably argue he won. But he still fought hard and took Mayweather into deep waters. And he deserves credit for how well he fought in defeat. The problem is fans don't seem to get that you can look good in defeat and earn respect for a close decision loss. And what haters do is they exaggerate everything to spin results in certain ways. I'm not a hater, I give credit where it's due and don't engage in group think, I don't allow expectations to cloud my scoring and I do not rely on confirmation bias.

Well again, I said that Canelo hardly won any rounds clearly, so I sort of agree with there, with the distinction being winning rounds clearly vs just winning rounds. This suggests you're just giving any close round to Mayweather because he's Mayweather which is pretty much how the public saw it. But what you fail to realize is how many rounds he kept close. For example, rounds 2-4, 6, 10 and 12 were each extremely close. He was also doing very well in first half of round 8, the 2nd half of round 8 though Floyd turned the tide. You simply don't know this match as well as I do. I've studied it closely and know what happened.

 

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