Has Canelo had too many controversial fights to be considered an ATG in the future ?

He has to beat Benavidez, then go back to 175 and beat the Bivol/Beterbiev winner, IMO, to get to top 40ish ATG.

Whether or not he is already an ATG depends on how long your list is. Top 100? I can see that.

 

ROFL He's conned you good hasn't he. He really lost Twice to GGG , Once to Lara & really the best he really deserved was a draw against Trout Reality my friend is that the legitmate winner of the contest should always get the decision he deserves unless your opponents name is Mayweather or Alvarez They were protected ny Vegas officials while the NSAC looked the other way

 

Unfortunately for you we don't judge atg status on fantasy judging. So none of what you just said matters in slightest lol.

 

True.

 

I would say the Kovalev fight is aging fairly well due to Kovalev stopping Yarde right before fighting Canelo, and Yarde still being a solid contender, who gave Bieterbiev a run for his money.

 

Fantasy judging is the official results.

 

You know as well as I do Canelo & Floyd had winning decisions in fights they really lost. It seem youre happy with the corruption that's rampant in the sport.. Its expected these days . BUT The same people complain about the corruption too. No one does anything about it so it will go on regardless. How can you truly give ATG status when that guy has winning decisions you KNOW he didn't deserve.
I'm of the old school that believe two fighters should enter the ring to do combat in a fair honestly judged contest & the better man on the day get the win they deserved. That isn't happening is it & we all know it.
They said boxing was corrupt in the 50's with the Mafia &Mob but today its 10 times worse they don't even have to try & hide it they know no one will stand up & call a halt to it
Ive spent most of my life in & around boxing, the sport I love, never did I think I would see it end up like this
Canelo stands up claims he is the King of Boxing & therefore he fights who he wants when he wants ROFLMAO its pathetic No one says a word

 

EXACTLY some of the so called best judges cards have been ludicrous. Boxers careers have been destroyed by them

 

All I'm glad of is there is still the PBR The Professional Bull Riders. Men attempting to stay on a 1500-2000 pound bulls back for 8 seconds while he does his best to throw him off. That's a real sport. If it comes to it theres a fight on TV or the PBR on CBS Sports I know which I will be watching

 

Didn't you think Floyd should have lost to Pacquiao, a fight that he clearly won? A fight that Pac was clearly injured. This is the problem with you CJ, you have no credibility if you think that Pacquiao beat Floyd, a fight that he clearly lost. You can't even get into the batter's box to talk about the first two Canelo GGG matches, if you literally think Pacquiao beat Floyd. Canelo GGG 1 and 2 were both extremely close and were far closer and more debatable than Floyd Pacquiao, a clear Floyd win. Even I admit Floyd beat Canelo, and beat him clearly despite me thinking it was closer than most people do, I still wouldn't dare to argue Canelo won that fight or even did enough to get a draw, in a fight he clearly lost. But you, if you think Pacquiao beat Floyd, that's far more absurd than ANY of my arguments about some of Canelo's close fights, whether I had him beating GGG once or twice in the first 2 fights, I'm being far more reasonable than you if you think Pac beat Floyd.

The only match that Floyd arguably lost for me is Castillo 1. He was young back then, semi-green you could say. And Castillo just got the better of him that night. Still it was close and debatable but he defintely got some favorable scoring that night. But Floyd clearly won every other match of his career imho.

 

I mean its in the record books, that's that.

 

Man I swear you guys act like controversial decisions is a newly created concept. Whats 1000% consistent is its never a robbery if your guy wins. So as far as it affecting atg status? If that was really the case you couldn't hand out atg status to anyone because there have been tons upon tons of close decisions in boxing history. Aren't you the handwraps fanboy? If so, It's pretty hypocritical to crow so much about these guys while defending a proven, punished cheat tooth and nail. I asked you in another thread that while a bit tasteless if the red head isn't the king, who is?

 

I have NEVER said Pac beat Floyd that is a lie. I said Floyd had to cheat with IV gate. He was caught red handed Cheating receiving an illegal & excessive 750 ml of saline drip in his own home 24 hours before fighting Pac. He NEVER applied for a TUE for the saline.Thats 4 of the NSAC's own rules broken right there.
Night of the fight Pac was to receive a previously agreed LEGAL Toradol shot for pain from a torn rotator cuff.
But the same NSAC refused to allows Pac's Toradol shot at last minute claiming Pac did not tick the right box on a form claiming injury. Pac never stood a chance in that fight BUT he did come close to it. Even Floyds
Dad/Trainer shouted between rounds' "why are you fighting scared son you know youre losing this fight don't you " ??. But the straw that broke the camels back was when the NSAC was asked if they were investigating the Saline debacle The reply was " Mr Mayweather did nothing wrong No we will not be investigating this" LOL Then 3 weeks after the fight they issued a retroactive TUE fur the saline
Do you think that was fair treatment towards Pacquaio I certainly don't Pac was sabotaged.
What I think should have happened was the fight be declared a No Conest & a rematch organized immediately. But there was one set of rules for Floyd & another for everyone else

 

He didn't con me at all. I think he lost to Golovkin and Lara. My point is that it doesn't matter what the fans think. The only thing that matters is really happened. He won those fights whether anyone likes it or not and you have to judge a career on the actual results not what people think the results should be.

 

OK good. I said IF you believe that. Glad you clarified this. If you agree that Floyd did in fact beat Pac, then I have more respect for you. However let me ask you this. How close do you think it was? Was the 118-110 scorecard too one-sided? I'm guessing you think it was. Do you consider the 116-112 scorecards about right? I'm glad you agree Pac lost, but I'm wondering how close you had it.

Right, this I know. I know you took issue with IV-gate. I'm of the belief (and maybe you'll agree with me) that Floyd's insistence on blood testing affected both Floyd and Pacquiao in a negative way. I think all the blood testing had drastic consequences for both Floyd and Pac's well being. Do you agree with that? Floyd was severely dehydrated, remember he was licking his lips pre-fight in that Jim Gray interview. His lips were bone dry. I believe that he became severely dehydrated due to the blood testing that he insisted on. And that he needed the IV because in my view all the blood he had extracted caused him to become seriously dehydrated. And Pac also was dehydrated due to the blood testing, even though he insisted on no blood testing 15 days before the fight (or something like that) but the blood testing that was done affected his well being too. And when you're dehydrated from blood testing, it affected his ability to heal from the shoulder injury. Your bones can become more brittle, your energy level is affected. People make fun of Pac for being afraid of needles but he was afraid of needles because he remembers what happened against Morales and how unhealthy he was and he believed that's why he lost that first fight. And he was also suffering from a shoulder injury. So I think Floyd's IV-gate was a consequence of the blood testing that he insisted on. Do you agree with that theory?

I agree with you that there was all kinds of shady stuff going on pre-fight of Floyd vs Pac. And the fight itself turned out to be a stinker.

The issue I have with you is, as you know that you try to lump Canelo into the shady stuff that Floyd did. Now I will agree that Canelo has had a lot more close fights than Floyd has. And I know you hold the Clenbuterol problem against Canelo. However Clenbuterol is a legitimate problem in Mexico, just beause Canelo tested positive for that and it postponed the GGG rematch doesn't mean he was a PED chater, and it doesn't mean he was getting preferential treatment like Floyd did with IV gate.

CJ if you really want to be taken more seriously (because some of your points have merit) and even your defense of Margarito, I would have more respect for your arguments if you were more fair to Canelo, if you didn't try so hard to pretend like Floyd and Canelo are the same person. Just because Canelo took over for Floyd as the cash cow of boxing, just because Canelo had some close decisions that went his way, they are very different people and although Canelo learned some things from Floyd, he also conducts himself differently and fights in a more fan friendly style than Floyd did, at least in Floyd's later career. That you cannot deny.

So I would say CJ I am willing to give you another chance to prove you're a reasonable boxing fan. You know I'm a fan of Canelo, so I take issues with your characterization of him, I think you blame Canelo for a lot of stuff that he has no control over. And for someone who wants to be taken seriously in your defense of Margarito, you should be more fair to Canelo. but again that's up to you, I'm just telling you the way I see it. And if we disagree, we disagree but we can disagree on how we see things but still respect each other. But thus far you have been far too over the top when it comes to Canelo. I get your criticisms of Floyd, with the IV stuff for example. That I can understand where your coming from. And I would have you know that once upon a time I was a fan of Floyd, but when he turned into Money Mayweather and how long he ducked Pac, and when he weight drained Canelo, I lost a lot of respect for him.