Has Oscar fought the best opposition of any fighter ever?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by El Cepillo, Feb 7, 2009.


  1. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    I struggle to compare modern fighters with anyone before the birth of the internet, but I will get there eventually. I suspect someone like Pacquaio will have fought (if he hasn't already) a similar amount of quality opponents as De La Hoya, although Pac might struggle because his resume is so "top heavy" with names like Barrera, Morales and JMM.
     
  2. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    In some ways, the heart that Oscar has shown has damaged his career (yet still helped it massively in other ways). I mean, (after Vargas, would have been appropriate), he should have started to wind things down with a few more fighers in and around that level of competion.

    Oscar, in his mid-30's, past his prime, had achived everything he wanted to achive in the sport, became incredibley rich and influential, decided to take on Bernard Hopkins well above Oscar's natural weight, then the a few years more past prime , 2 x P4P kings.

    Was if for the money? was it because he had a fighters heart and that was just how he rolled? Either way, while getting him huge respect for trying, he might have been better off an a different path at that stage in his career.
     
  3. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    I think we should also consider the stage a particular opponent is at. By definition, competition is supposed to be competition! I'm not sure how much a Chavez would count towards things. It looks great as a name, but further analysis beyond that is needed.

    Whitaker too, looks brilliant as a name, and he was still capable as the fight demonstrated, but we have to take a few points off and recognise its not the same as a prime Whitaker.
     
  4. Detroit

    Detroit Get Money Full Member

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    Hell No...Joe Calzaghe -hands down
     
  5. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    Chavez was a great name, and a good win. Nothing more, nothing less than that IMO... given that JCC showed little or no heart and provided very little competion for Oscar in either fight. The only reason JCC didn't look completly 100% shot to **** in the 2nd fight, was Oscar adopted those macho brawling tactics, if Oscar had choose to box it would have been even more one sided than it was.

    But then, how much competion was a severly weight drained Oscar, ten years past his prime ever going to be for Pac? yet that is perhaps going to go down as Pac's best ever win. Sometimes the name is better than the actual level of competion.

    I more or less agree about Whitaker, obviously, I think the best name on Oscar's resume. I don't agree with anyone (and there have been a few on this thread) who says Whitaker was "shot", that is a total fantasy, Whitaker could have well got the nod from the judges, then how many people would be saying he was "shot" then? Whitaker was on a near decade long winning streak, he was at the end of his career but still a fine fighter, and he went life and death with the prime version of the golden boy and perhaps even beat him. A great win, IMO.

    Funny thing is, Oscar best win was taken from him, the "win" over Tito would have been his signature fight. Shame really.
     
  6. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    :yep
     
  7. Nigel_Benn

    Nigel_Benn Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think in an era of cherrypicking champions and fighters not willing to meet to make the big mega fights Oscar will be seen in this era along with Mosley,Trinidad and Pacquaio as the fighters always looking for the big fights that entertain us the boxing fans.
     
  8. freddy-wak

    freddy-wak M O D E R A T O R Full Member

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    exactly...
    if more fighters had the power that oscar has, they would have the same resume...
     
  9. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    That's completely untrue. SOME fighters may have had a similar resume, however most fighters would use the drawing power to make trunk loads of cashing fighting handpicked opponents. Floyd Mayweather for instance, was on top, and could have put so many big fights together... and chose not to. RJJ could have done much more as well. Look how long he went in that division without giving us RJJ vs Tarver or RJJ vs DM! That division was weak as hell, and he didn't fight the other best guy in it. Not only that but Jirov wanted to fight him something awful at 190, and you had Joe Calzaghe calling him out for years at 168... RJJ instead used his money making ability to rake in the cash fighting subpar opponents.

    Look what happened when Oscar moved into 147 pounds. He immediately fought the #1 pd 4 pd fighter in the world, the WBC Champion Whitaker. Then, he immediately started tearing through the top contenders, gave JCC his rematch, beat Camacho, and then went on to fight the undefeated and true WBA Champ (never lost it in the ring) Ike Quartey. After that war he tunes up by using a top notch contender in Obe Carr, and then fights the Undefeated IBF Champ Trinidad. Not even a year later he is fighting the undefeated Shane Mosley.... then has his farewell to 147 fight against Gatti for the fans on regular HBO, before moving up to immediately challenge the long standing avoided 154 lbs Champion Castillejo. Then immediately unifies with Vargas. Then after rematch with Mosley ect... moves well above his comfortable fighting weight and takes on the only two standing Champions at 160 lbs back to back.

    Hell, Oscar is still fighting the pd 4 pd #1 fighters in the world and he don't even have legs anymore. He isn't just cashing in either, the man is training his ass off and coming to win. Let alone that he won a title at 130, destroyed his top opponents at 135 (Ruelas, Paez, Hernandez, Leija, ect..) moved up to 140 right into a title fight against the legendary WBC Champion Chavez, and then defended against the undefeated contender Gonzalez.

    It's completely false to pretend like Oscar doesn't deserve credit for his resume just because he had drawing power. If anything... that should give him MORE credit for taking the risk with these mega-fights. Oscar could have easily made a career out of beating nobodies, but Oscar ALWAYS fighting top fighters is what made Oscar the huge attraction that is today. Oscar always had a following since the Olympics, however he grew to be the superstar that he was by his performances, and by always putting on the mega-events that the fans wanted to see.
     
  10. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    He fought the guys who were good, but he fought all of them at times where they were not at thier best. He found ways to do that. And even then he did not beat them. I think he career is great, but not ATG. How can it be? After his loss to Hopkins you cannot match him up with Hagler or Monzon. After he lost to Tito by decision, it does not look good for him with Hearns or Leonard. He lost to Pacman when he was still relatively young and that does not bode well with him with Duran moving up.
     
  11. sdsfinest22

    sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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    I think Oscar has one of the best resumes in the sport..He fought B-HOP when B-HOP was on top, he fought Mosley x2 and mosley was undefeated in there 1st fight...Trinidad...Vargas though Vargas wasn't on top cuz he got his a$$ whooped by Tito he still was 1 of the best in the world at the time...Floyd was the best in the world when he fought Floyd and so was Manny...I'd say Oscar has fought, or tried to fight everyone he could!!
     
  12. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    Absolutely, all those fighters you listed had the same mentality as Oscar, but I think Oscar was the best of the bunch in terms of being willing to fight the best, and actually fighing them. You could also add Morales to that list, and maybe one or two others - none of whom are called Floyd or Joe.
     
  13. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Plenty more where that came from. Guys like Jimmy McLarnin and Holman Williams rank high up there as well.

    McLarnin, wins over: Benny Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Lou Ambers, Young Corbet III, Pancho Villa, Billy Petrolle X2, Bud Taylor, Fidel LaBarba X2, Sammy Mandell X2, Sammy Fuller, Joe Glick X3, Jackie Fields, Sergeant Sammy Baker, Ruby Goldstein, Al Singer, Ray Miller, Sid Terris, Billy Wallace, Louis Kaplan, Young Jack Thompson, Stanislaus Loayza, Tommy Cello, Frankie Dolan, etc. in just 68 fights.

    Williams, wins over: Archie Moore, Charley Burley X3, Lloyd Marshall X2, Cocoa Kid X3, Eddie Booker, Bert Lytell, Jack Chase X4, Aaron Wade X2, Jose Basora X4, Jackie Burke, Lew Massey, Kid Tunero X3, Bob Satterfield, Joe Carter X2, Jimmy Leto, Steve Belloise, Chuck Woods, Tommy Paul, Battling Gizzy, Saverio Turiello, Jack Portney, Young Gene Buffalo X3, Frankie Britt X2, Izzy Jannazzo, Eddie Dolan X2, Antonio Fernandez X2, Andre Jessurun, Henry Hall, George Henry, Tony Falco, Johnny Carter, Johnny Green, Carl Dell, etc. in 188 fights.
     
  14. El Cepillo

    El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

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    Great post :good