Has The Now Mythical Skillset Of The Gypsy King Been Vastly Overstated & Blown Out Of Proportion?

Liquorice · Sep 30, 2021

Fury renders his opponents so impotent he has to punch himself in the face to even things up. He will fk u up.

CST80 · Sep 30, 2021

IntentionalButt said: ↑

At last, the long awaited true messiah cometh. And it was good. And with each idol toppled it will be all the more glorious.
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In the end.......

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....and who that "One" was, for people who KSAB, was never in question.

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IntentionalButt said: ↑

That will totally not have been some outlandish pipe dream of yours truly, the habitual HW party pooper ...or something you also claimed but people probably thought (that is, irrational Wilder/Fury/Joshua acolytes) that you were being sarcastic.
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They're the only ones. My dedication as well as @Serge's has been as unyielding as yours. We've all just been sitting here biding our time, grinning like Cheshire Cats, patiently awaiting the true arrival of our Barbarian King!

IntentionalButt · Sep 30, 2021

CST80 said: ↑

In the end.......

....and who that "One" was, for people who KSAB, was never in question.

They're the only ones. My dedication as well as @Serge's has been as unyielding as yours. We've all just been sitting here biding our time, grinning like Cheshire Cats, patiently awaiting the true arrival of our Barbarian King!
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And you somehow played the Furyites and Wilderians like fiddles, against each other, the whole time, with neither side realizing and both embracing you as a true believer. Had people thinking they were your 1A and 1B yin and yang perfect representations of all that one could wish for a HW to be...when all along you knew they'd both get 12-0ed if not possibly stopped by the goofy-ass oseledets-sporting whirling-dervish Lord of the Lunk-Taming Dance.

NEETzschean · Sep 30, 2021

CST80 said: ↑

Alright, I'm certainly going to end up pissing countless people off with this thread, but whatever... it won't be the first time. But what I'm going to say, has really needed to be said for quite some time. But I've said nothing, and the Cult Of The Gypsy King has grown almost as uncontrollably as the Cults Of The Bronze Dosser and The Golden Bodybuilder. Maybe it needs a little water poured onto it. Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm doing this extemporaneously. So here goes....

So is Fury really this master boxer? Or is it all a smoke and mirrors like illusion?

I'll get to his big wins later, since they're 2 of only about 3 actual highlights in one of the P4P worst resumes of any active P4P ranked top fighter.

His first match against Chisora, Chisora rocked him a few times, and it was basically an ugly brawl and a scrappy slug fest at times, but... Tyson hadn't evolved yet and they were both undefeated and pretty green, pretty good win overall regardless. The rematch, clearly Tyson was more of the finished product and was able to use his ability to control range to greater effect this time. That carried over to the Christian Hammer match, also a quality win. But at the end of the day, if you can't beat Chisora or Hammer, who are high level gatekeepers, then you're not even close to being elite. So full credit to Tyson Fury for those good wins, but let's be honest, neither of them are that hard to outbox.

Now, on to the fun part.

Quite frankly, there's 2 massive elephants in the room here that no one really wants to talk about, and I'm not talking about Fury directly. The first one is, while it's something that should have been considered by most, including myself beforehand. Wlad was NOT a front foot heavy aggressive fighter, he's been a backfoot counter puncher against almost everyone he's fought since he hooked up with Steward, one of the few exceptions was Pulev, because I guess he thought he could have his way with Pulev, who's a featherfist. But with Fury, not only did he not want to risk it, when he did, Fury made him pay, so risk averse Wlad just assumed Fury would gas out and he could take him late, but PED'd up Fury conveniently never gassed until the last two or three rounds, but by then it was too late. Styles make fights, Fury's style especially this ultra defensive version, was always a nightmare for Wlad in particular. So that one is easy to explain away. Was it impressive? Sure, but he also fought Wlad like a total coward, terrified to take even the slightest of risks. Quite frankly, they both fought like total pussies. But that's what happens when you have two guys who are counter punchers by nature who don't like getting hit in the ring against one another.

Now, onto the second.... for years, all we've heard is Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! And there's a reason for that.... HE IS. Most assumed that Wilder would beat Fury, because well... somehow he can always find a way to land that straight right of his. Well, he still did, but Fury thankfully has solid powers of recovery. But what happened after that? They went to war, he landed a few bombs on Wilder, Wilder was clearly affected by them, so just like Maravilla Martinez, in the later rounds against Williams, when he saw that adjustment with his looping overhand left was having an effect on him, he merely started the rematch right where he left off in the 12th, and presto, it worked like a charm. That's basically what Fury did in the rematch. He also benefited from a clear as day punch to the back of the ear, which literally caused blood to start gushing out of Wilder's ear. Obviously his equilibrium was off, so he couldn't sit down on his shots very well. So that means he had a sitting duck, with no balance, who couldn't generate any real power..... standing in front of him, and it still took 5 more rounds of teeing off on him to get the ref to stop it. Now mull this over, aside from getting KO'd twice, because he was a septuagenarian on blood pressure medicine... Who won rounds more decisively off of a non injured non impaired Wilder? Ortiz or Fury? Its a close call isn't it? I lean King Kong Ortiz. And ultimately, is schooling the P4P most unskilled Heavyweight boxer possibly ever... really something to brag about? Especially when you end up getting dropped twice in the process?

What about his struggles with Otto Wallin? Where did all of those skills go? He had a big slow southpaw oaf walking him down in a rudimentary fashion, occasionally winging in a looping over hand left, and that was more than enough to completely throw Tyson off his rhythm for the first six rounds of the fight. It wasn't until Otto started gassing that Tyson Fury finally found his rhythm. Then he reverted back to the scrapper that fought Chisora the first time around. He just bullied him around the ring and landed slapping body shots and wild looping shots up top, basically having to revert using his size to his advantage, because on that night his skills were simply not paying the bills. Sure he ran around the ring flicking out a jab a lot, but none of it was quite enough to fully negate Otto's forward march, nor was it enough to convincingly win Tyson very many of the early rounds. Otto was aided immeasurably by the massive cut he opened up on his eyebrow, but still... he opened up a cut with a punch. The point is, the mythical skill set of the Gypsy King was nowhere to be seen, he had to rely on pure raw physicality to bail him out.

Granted, Fury has always had issues with southpaws, he was a sitting duck for that looping left from Otto, and he's about as fast on his feet as Old Man Ortiz, yet he was backing him up throughout. He also got rocked to his core by glass jawed Abell at least twice before he stopped him, alongside all of the smaller guys that have dropped him or hurt him like Cunningham, McDermott, Pajkic and Chisora, the first three are 6'3, like Usyk, Chisora is 6'2. So who's to say if you add in Usyk's incredible stamina, that he won't be very easy to catch and wail on like Otto was in the second half of their fight. Who's to say that Usyk couldn't easily duck under his looping slappy sloppy hooks all night, then get in his grill and fat belly and work Fury's blobby ass over like a speedbag. Then pivoting out of the side door, turning him and keeping him discombobulated throughout. Yes Fury is fast for a big man, but this is also mainly against stationary targets, who are neither fast nor mobile. Remember in the Wilder rematch, from the fourth round on, Fury's shots were getting increasingly wild, inaccurate and slow to the point where Wilder was actually starting to roll with a lot of them. So if Tyson Fury tries that approach, Usyk might only have to play stay away for three or four rounds, then Fury will have considerably less in the tank, and could turn into a sitting duck.

My point is, Usyk vs. Fury is not anywhere close to a foregone conclusion. Fury's two biggest wins are a bit of an illusion which has given way to fanboy delusion. Both of which have ended up flattering him greatly, causing many fans to overrate him brutally. Is he good? Of course he is. But did he benefit greatly from the stylistically favorable match against Klitschko? Yes. Did he benefit greatly from Wilder having next to zero boxing IQ? Yes. Is his skill set next level? No. He uses his hulking size, incredible height and reach to his advantage to great effect, coupled with having more mobility and fluidity than your average behemoth, that is all. How much good would all of that do him if he was only 6'2? Would he even rate as a 5'8 welterweight? Probably not. His skill set has been vastly overrated, but he is a big SOB who uses being a big SOB to his advantage marvelously, and he has a lot of grit and will power. Eventually though, someone with a higher ring IQ will come along and negate all of those advantages with relative ease. And how much can that chin really take? Especially if it gets hit clean repeatedly.

At the very least, mull what I've said over.
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"Fury was on PED's"

Fury was PED'd up in Germany despite not failing a test for the fight yet 39.5 year old marble statue Wlad was not...

"Fury fought like a coward"

See the careers of Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Bernard Hopkins. Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit and Fury toyed with and humiliated the most technically proficient heavyweight boxer of all time in his own backyard. He had more problems with the wasp that was chasing him and his shorts falling down late than he did with Wlad.

The insane anti-Wilder vitriol has already been refuted (pre the Usyk-AJ destruction) [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/wilders-resume.672922/[/url]

On Wallin: [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/otto-wallin-will-school-dillian-whyte.674609/#post-21296028[/url]

Your argument here is as ignorant as saying "Usyk struggled with Chisooooora".

"Rocked by glass jawed Abel"

Really low IQ on display here. You can be glass-chinned but still a banger; Abell was a glass cannon.

NEETzschean · Sep 30, 2021

CST80 said: ↑

Alright, I'm certainly going to end up pissing countless people off with this thread, but whatever... it won't be the first time. But what I'm going to say, has really needed to be said for quite some time. But I've said nothing, and the Cult Of The Gypsy King has grown almost as uncontrollably as the Cults Of The Bronze Dosser and The Golden Bodybuilder. Maybe it needs a little water poured onto it. Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm doing this extemporaneously. So here goes....

So is Fury really this master boxer? Or is it all a smoke and mirrors like illusion?

I'll get to his big wins later, since they're 2 of only about 3 actual highlights in one of the P4P worst resumes of any active P4P ranked top fighter.

His first match against Chisora, Chisora rocked him a few times, and it was basically an ugly brawl and a scrappy slug fest at times, but... Tyson hadn't evolved yet and they were both undefeated and pretty green, pretty good win overall regardless. The rematch, clearly Tyson was more of the finished product and was able to use his ability to control range to greater effect this time. That carried over to the Christian Hammer match, also a quality win. But at the end of the day, if you can't beat Chisora or Hammer, who are high level gatekeepers, then you're not even close to being elite. So full credit to Tyson Fury for those good wins, but let's be honest, neither of them are that hard to outbox.

Now, on to the fun part.

Quite frankly, there's 2 massive elephants in the room here that no one really wants to talk about, and I'm not talking about Fury directly. The first one is, while it's something that should have been considered by most, including myself beforehand. Wlad was NOT a front foot heavy aggressive fighter, he's been a backfoot counter puncher against almost everyone he's fought since he hooked up with Steward, one of the few exceptions was Pulev, because I guess he thought he could have his way with Pulev, who's a featherfist. But with Fury, not only did he not want to risk it, when he did, Fury made him pay, so risk averse Wlad just assumed Fury would gas out and he could take him late, but PED'd up Fury conveniently never gassed until the last two or three rounds, but by then it was too late. Styles make fights, Fury's style especially this ultra defensive version, was always a nightmare for Wlad in particular. So that one is easy to explain away. Was it impressive? Sure, but he also fought Wlad like a total coward, terrified to take even the slightest of risks. Quite frankly, they both fought like total pussies. But that's what happens when you have two guys who are counter punchers by nature who don't like getting hit in the ring against one another.

Now, onto the second.... for years, all we've heard is Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! And there's a reason for that.... HE IS. Most assumed that Wilder would beat Fury, because well... somehow he can always find a way to land that straight right of his. Well, he still did, but Fury thankfully has solid powers of recovery. But what happened after that? They went to war, he landed a few bombs on Wilder, Wilder was clearly affected by them, so just like Maravilla Martinez, in the later rounds against Williams, when he saw that adjustment with his looping overhand left was having an effect on him, he merely started the rematch right where he left off in the 12th, and presto, it worked like a charm. That's basically what Fury did in the rematch. He also benefited from a clear as day punch to the back of the ear, which literally caused blood to start gushing out of Wilder's ear. Obviously his equilibrium was off, so he couldn't sit down on his shots very well. So that means he had a sitting duck, with no balance, who couldn't generate any real power..... standing in front of him, and it still took 5 more rounds of teeing off on him to get the ref to stop it. Now mull this over, aside from getting KO'd twice, because he was a septuagenarian on blood pressure medicine... Who won rounds more decisively off of a non injured non impaired Wilder? Ortiz or Fury? Its a close call isn't it? I lean King Kong Ortiz. And ultimately, is schooling the P4P most unskilled Heavyweight boxer possibly ever... really something to brag about? Especially when you end up getting dropped twice in the process?

What about his struggles with Otto Wallin? Where did all of those skills go? He had a big slow southpaw oaf walking him down in a rudimentary fashion, occasionally winging in a looping over hand left, and that was more than enough to completely throw Tyson off his rhythm for the first six rounds of the fight. It wasn't until Otto started gassing that Tyson Fury finally found his rhythm. Then he reverted back to the scrapper that fought Chisora the first time around. He just bullied him around the ring and landed slapping body shots and wild looping shots up top, basically having to revert using his size to his advantage, because on that night his skills were simply not paying the bills. Sure he ran around the ring flicking out a jab a lot, but none of it was quite enough to fully negate Otto's forward march, nor was it enough to convincingly win Tyson very many of the early rounds. Otto was aided immeasurably by the massive cut he opened up on his eyebrow, but still... he opened up a cut with a punch. The point is, the mythical skill set of the Gypsy King was nowhere to be seen, he had to rely on pure raw physicality to bail him out.

Granted, Fury has always had issues with southpaws, he was a sitting duck for that looping left from Otto, and he's about as fast on his feet as Old Man Ortiz, yet he was backing him up throughout. He also got rocked to his core by glass jawed Abell at least twice before he stopped him, alongside all of the smaller guys that have dropped him or hurt him like Cunningham, McDermott, Pajkic and Chisora, the first three are 6'3, like Usyk, Chisora is 6'2. So who's to say if you add in Usyk's incredible stamina, that he won't be very easy to catch and wail on like Otto was in the second half of their fight. Who's to say that Usyk couldn't easily duck under his looping slappy sloppy hooks all night, then get in his grill and fat belly and work Fury's blobby ass over like a speedbag. Then pivoting out of the side door, turning him and keeping him discombobulated throughout. Yes Fury is fast for a big man, but this is also mainly against stationary targets, who are neither fast nor mobile. Remember in the Wilder rematch, from the fourth round on, Fury's shots were getting increasingly wild, inaccurate and slow to the point where Wilder was actually starting to roll with a lot of them. So if Tyson Fury tries that approach, Usyk might only have to play stay away for three or four rounds, then Fury will have considerably less in the tank, and could turn into a sitting duck.

My point is, Usyk vs. Fury is not anywhere close to a foregone conclusion. Fury's two biggest wins are a bit of an illusion which has given way to fanboy delusion. Both of which have ended up flattering him greatly, causing many fans to overrate him brutally. Is he good? Of course he is. But did he benefit greatly from the stylistically favorable match against Klitschko? Yes. Did he benefit greatly from Wilder having next to zero boxing IQ? Yes. Is his skill set next level? No. He uses his hulking size, incredible height and reach to his advantage to great effect, coupled with having more mobility and fluidity than your average behemoth, that is all. How much good would all of that do him if he was only 6'2? Would he even rate as a 5'8 welterweight? Probably not. His skill set has been vastly overrated, but he is a big SOB who uses being a big SOB to his advantage marvelously, and he has a lot of grit and will power. Eventually though, someone with a higher ring IQ will come along and negate all of those advantages with relative ease. And how much can that chin really take? Especially if it gets hit clean repeatedly.

At the very least, mull what I've said over.
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"Chisora, Firtha, Pajkic, Cunningham"

The reaching is insane lol, compare that to how many times Wlad was knocked down or hurt, it's probably over two dozen times, plus the 3 stoppage defeats he had before he hit his prime. All of those guys hurt Fury early in his career, almost back to back with little rest between fights, when Fury was doing fat camp every fight and weighing in around 250 lbs. As a mature, experienced champion at 270 lbs, he is far more durable and no one early in his career ever came close to stopping him. Even the KD's he recovered quickly from. The shortest of those guys is 6'1, the lightest is 210 lbs: pre-Haye Chisora dropped Kevin Johnson I believe before anyone else did and Cunningham stopped Huck, who went 12 with near-prime Povetkin (many thought Huck won) went 12 with Lebedev and officially won and went 12 with Briedis even when past his best. Even Firtha went 10 with Povetkin before he fought Fury and got stopped in 5. Since then Fury has survived arguably the two biggest punchers of all time over 3 fights and 30 rounds with only 2 KD's conceded while half-cooked in the first fight, beating both of them and he's about to take Wilder on for a 3rd time.

I get that you like Usyk. I enjoyed his win over AJ as much as any other fight I've ever seen, including AJ-Ruiz 1 and Wilder-Fury 2 but Fury is a -300 favourite for a reason. He's got too many tools in his arsenal and is similarly good to Usyk P4P, while being 5 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier. I just hope both men get through their next fights and we see it, may the best man win.

NEETzschean · Sep 30, 2021

I hope Usyk does prove to be Fury's best opponent because I want to see Fury pushed to the limit of his abilities in a fight he takes 100% seriously.

Caliboxing · Sep 30, 2021

To answer the thread title, yes, yes it has been over-rated. Fury is a chameleon and can adapt to what's in front of him but the Wallin fight was no fluke, he tried his best and struggled with an opponent that actually moved, turned him and boxed well instead of just being intimidated to death or plodding like a sci-fi movie reject. I think he's also playing with fire with the long layoffs and putting on weight. I hope he's in for a crude awakening next Saturday, and regardless of what happens, I think Usyk is a nightmare for him.

CST80 · Sep 30, 2021

IntentionalButt said: ↑

And you somehow played the Furyites and Wilderians like fiddles, against each other, the whole time, with neither side realizing and both embracing you as a true believer. Had people thinking they were your 1A and 1B yin and yang perfect representations of all that one could wish for a HW to be...when all along you knew they'd both get 12-0ed if not possibly stopped by the goofy-ass oseledets-sporting whirling-dervish Lord of the Lunk-Taming Dance.
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richdanahuff · Sep 30, 2021

No I do think his skills are oversold by fans but they are very good but his ring IQ is on another level....he kind of mimics the Ali style in nature and Connor McGregor in marketing strategy and he has size advantages that has rarely been seen for crying out loud he has the same factor that John Jones has in the UFC extremely long limbs and a shorter thick torso....I think that Fury's biggest enemy is himself at this point if he steps in the ring with his mind not in the fight he can be beaten if he is in the mood he can humiliate any heavyweight out there..

CST80 · Sep 30, 2021

NEETzschean said: ↑

Really low IQ on display here. You can be glass-chinned but still a banger; Abell was a glass cannon.
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No ****. Who said anything to the contrary fanboy?

NEETzschean · Sep 30, 2021

CST80 said: ↑

No ****. Who said anything to the contrary fanboy?
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Rich to call me a fanboy when you're clearly in love with Usyk and flagrantly biased when I won't have a problem if Usyk proves to be better than Fury.

"He also got rocked to his core by glass jawed Abell at least twice before he stopped him"

How is it relevant that Abell has a glass jaw? It's like saying "Wlad got destroyed in 2 rounds, almost finished in 1, by glass jawed Corrie Sanders".

What's relevant here is that Abell/Sanders were power punching southpaws. Both young Fury and older Wlad didn't take their opponents seriously enough, which resulted in Fury getting buzzed before KO'ing Abell in 4 and Wlad getting blasted out.

CST80 · Sep 30, 2021

NEETzschean said: ↑

Rich to call me a fanboy when you're clearly in love with Usyk and flagrantly biased when I won't have a problem if Usyk proves to be better than Fury.

"He also got rocked to his core by glass jawed Abell at least twice before he stopped him"

How is it relevant that Abell has a glass jaw? It's like saying "Wlad got destroyed in 2 rounds, almost finished in 1, by glass jawed Corrie Sanders".

What's relevant here is that Abell/Sanders were power punching southpaws. Both young Fury and older Wlad didn't take their opponents seriously enough, which resulted in Fury getting buzzed before KO'ing Abell in 4 and Wlad getting blasted out.
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Because you are. Hell, you're triggered so badly, I can literally feel you shaking over the internet.

You're latching onto irrelevant illustrative comments I made that have zero bearing on my overarching points, and that applies to all three of your above posts as well. In an attempt to undermine the whole. But it's not going to work, because I'm known for my overly dramatic descriptive language, people are used to it by now.... and this thread has NOTHING to do with Wladimir Klitschko or the punching power of Fury's opponents or anything else you've mentioned. I'm talking about Fury's skillset being overrated. Now stay on topic.

NEETzschean · Sep 30, 2021

CST80 said: ↑

Because you are. Hell, you're triggered so badly, I can literally feel you shaking over the internet.

You're latching onto irrelevant illustrative comments I made that have zero bearing on my overarching points, and that applies to all three of your above posts as well. In an attempt to undermine the whole. But it's not going to work, because I'm known for my overly dramatic descriptive language, people are used to it by now.... and this thread has NOTHING to do with Wladimir Klitschko or the punching power of Fury's opponents or anything else you've mentioned. I'm talking about Fury's skillset being overrated. Now stay on topic.
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You took an entire paragraph to say nothing. Obviously you don't feel like answering my points, that's fine. If Usyk is better than Fury I hope he wins; that is the antithesis of fanboyism. Undermining Fury's abilities is only going to make Usyk look bad if Fury beats him or less good if he beats Fury. I think they are the top 2 HW's of all time ability-wise and it will likely be an extremely difficult puzzle to solve for either of them to beat the other at their best.

MidniteProwler · Sep 30, 2021

CST80 said: ↑

Alright, I'm certainly going to end up pissing countless people off with this thread, but whatever... it won't be the first time. But what I'm going to say, has really needed to be said for quite some time. But I've said nothing, and the Cult Of The Gypsy King has grown almost as uncontrollably as the Cults Of The Bronze Dosser and The Golden Bodybuilder. Maybe it needs a little water poured onto it. Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm doing this extemporaneously. So here goes....

So is Fury really this master boxer? Or is it all a smoke and mirrors like illusion?

I'll get to his big wins later, since they're 2 of only about 3 actual highlights in one of the P4P worst resumes of any active P4P ranked top fighter.

His first match against Chisora, Chisora rocked him a few times, and it was basically an ugly brawl and a scrappy slug fest at times, but... Tyson hadn't evolved yet and they were both undefeated and pretty green, pretty good win overall regardless. The rematch, clearly Tyson was more of the finished product and was able to use his ability to control range to greater effect this time. That carried over to the Christian Hammer match, also a quality win. But at the end of the day, if you can't beat Chisora or Hammer, who are high level gatekeepers, then you're not even close to being elite. So full credit to Tyson Fury for those good wins, but let's be honest, neither of them are that hard to outbox.

Now, on to the fun part.

Quite frankly, there's 2 massive elephants in the room here that no one really wants to talk about, and I'm not talking about Fury directly. The first one is, while it's something that should have been considered by most, including myself beforehand. Wlad was NOT a front foot heavy aggressive fighter, he's been a backfoot counter puncher against almost everyone he's fought since he hooked up with Steward, one of the few exceptions was Pulev, because I guess he thought he could have his way with Pulev, who's a featherfist. But with Fury, not only did he not want to risk it, when he did, Fury made him pay, so risk averse Wlad just assumed Fury would gas out and he could take him late, but PED'd up Fury conveniently never gassed until the last two or three rounds, but by then it was too late. Styles make fights, Fury's style especially this ultra defensive version, was always a nightmare for Wlad in particular. So that one is easy to explain away. Was it impressive? Sure, but he also fought Wlad like a total coward, terrified to take even the slightest of risks. Quite frankly, they both fought like total pussies. But that's what happens when you have two guys who are counter punchers by nature who don't like getting hit in the ring against one another.

Now, onto the second.... for years, all we've heard is Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! Wilder is a TERRIBLE BOXER!!! And there's a reason for that.... HE IS. Most assumed that Wilder would beat Fury, because well... somehow he can always find a way to land that straight right of his. Well, he still did, but Fury thankfully has solid powers of recovery. But what happened after that? They went to war, he landed a few bombs on Wilder, Wilder was clearly affected by them, so just like Maravilla Martinez, in the later rounds against Williams, when he saw that adjustment with his looping overhand left was having an effect on him, he merely started the rematch right where he left off in the 12th, and presto, it worked like a charm. That's basically what Fury did in the rematch. He also benefited from a clear as day punch to the back of the ear, which literally caused blood to start gushing out of Wilder's ear. Obviously his equilibrium was off, so he couldn't sit down on his shots very well. So that means he had a sitting duck, with no balance, who couldn't generate any real power..... standing in front of him, and it still took 5 more rounds of teeing off on him to get the ref to stop it. Now mull this over, aside from getting KO'd twice, because he was a septuagenarian on blood pressure medicine... Who won rounds more decisively off of a non injured non impaired Wilder? Ortiz or Fury? Its a close call isn't it? I lean King Kong Ortiz. And ultimately, is schooling the P4P most unskilled Heavyweight boxer possibly ever... really something to brag about? Especially when you end up getting dropped twice in the process?

What about his struggles with Otto Wallin? Where did all of those skills go? He had a big slow southpaw oaf walking him down in a rudimentary fashion, occasionally winging in a looping over hand left, and that was more than enough to completely throw Tyson off his rhythm for the first six rounds of the fight. It wasn't until Otto started gassing that Tyson Fury finally found his rhythm. Then he reverted back to the scrapper that fought Chisora the first time around. He just bullied him around the ring and landed slapping body shots and wild looping shots up top, basically having to revert using his size to his advantage, because on that night his skills were simply not paying the bills. Sure he ran around the ring flicking out a jab a lot, but none of it was quite enough to fully negate Otto's forward march, nor was it enough to convincingly win Tyson very many of the early rounds. Otto was aided immeasurably by the massive cut he opened up on his eyebrow, but still... he opened up a cut with a punch. The point is, the mythical skill set of the Gypsy King was nowhere to be seen, he had to rely on pure raw physicality to bail him out.

Granted, Fury has always had issues with southpaws, he was a sitting duck for that looping left from Otto, and he's about as fast on his feet as Old Man Ortiz, yet he was backing him up throughout. He also got rocked to his core by glass jawed Abell at least twice before he stopped him, alongside all of the smaller guys that have dropped him or hurt him like Cunningham, McDermott, Pajkic and Chisora, the first three are 6'3, like Usyk, Chisora is 6'2. So who's to say if you add in Usyk's incredible stamina, that he won't be very easy to catch and wail on like Otto was in the second half of their fight. Who's to say that Usyk couldn't easily duck under his looping slappy sloppy hooks all night, then get in his grill and fat belly and work Fury's blobby ass over like a speedbag. Then pivoting out of the side door, turning him and keeping him discombobulated throughout. Yes Fury is fast for a big man, but this is also mainly against stationary targets, who are neither fast nor mobile. Remember in the Wilder rematch, from the fourth round on, Fury's shots were getting increasingly wild, inaccurate and slow to the point where Wilder was actually starting to roll with a lot of them. So if Tyson Fury tries that approach, Usyk might only have to play stay away for three or four rounds, then Fury will have considerably less in the tank, and could turn into a sitting duck.

My point is, Usyk vs. Fury is not anywhere close to a foregone conclusion. Fury's two biggest wins are a bit of an illusion which has given way to fanboy delusion. Both of which have ended up flattering him greatly, causing many fans to overrate him brutally. Is he good? Of course he is. But did he benefit greatly from the stylistically favorable match against Klitschko? Yes. Did he benefit greatly from Wilder having next to zero boxing IQ? Yes. Is his skill set next level? No. He uses his hulking size, incredible height and reach to his advantage to great effect, coupled with having more mobility and fluidity than your average behemoth, that is all. How much good would all of that do him if he was only 6'2? Would he even rate as a 5'8 welterweight? Probably not. His skill set has been vastly overrated, but he is a big SOB who uses being a big SOB to his advantage marvelously, and he has a lot of grit and will power. Eventually though, someone with a higher ring IQ will come along and negate all of those advantages with relative ease. And how much can that chin really take? Especially if it gets hit clean repeatedly.

At the very least, mull what I've said over.
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This is a good post and creates interesting argument. Now firstly I will admit that I love Tyson Fury.
I think that most heavyweights apart from the all time greats are not very skillful I think it is harder to be skillful at a sport like boxing when you are so big. I mean look at a guy like Lucas Browne who has no skill but had a decent career because he was a big man with power. So I agree Fury makes these big strong guys look like fools because he is not only big but is skillful which is rare in men his size but even in his training you can see that he is not a skillful as the likes of Canelo, GGG, Loma, Crawford etc guys like that are on another level. I believe that Usyk is on this level in terms of skill so out boxing AJ for him was relatively easy the same way out boxing Wilder was relatively easy for Fury but obviously AJ is more skilled than Wilder. Both Usyk and Fury knew they really only had to worry about the power.

The reason I think that Fury will beat Usyk though is because I think that Fury has that rare mentality that few fighters have the absolute will to win at all costs. I also believe Fury fights to the level of his opposition he knows boxing and understands that Usyk is a serious threat. Usyk is more skilled and will have a great game plan but Fury is skilled enough not to get hit with the straight left at will like AJ was Usyk was landing that whenever he wanted, Fury also knows how to roll with shots something AJ doesn't know. Fury will know he can't outbox Usyk and he will try and monster him and I can see him having Usyk in the back foot enough to win a decision.

HellSpawn86 · Sep 30, 2021

I agree to an extent. Fury will be a wildcard in any top fight. I didn't think much of him until he beat Klitschko and came back and beat Wilder. Before those fights I saw him as not much more than a raw prospect with limited skills. I wasn't impressed the first time I watched him fight Klitschko because it was a slow match and I felt WK underestimated Fury. Once I watched it the second time I caught a lot of subtle movements and tactics he used to win the fight. I was thoroughly impressed how he outboxed Wilder the first fight and whomped him the second fight. He really stepped up his skillset for the Klitschko fight and came back an overall complete fighting and thinking animal against Wilder.

What really holds Fury back from a legacy standpoint is that he took a big break after the Klitschko fight and has avoided most of the top 10 since then. He resume is light on top 10 fighters and no title defenses. However cheesy it was in the beginning, his self belief and digging in deep for his performances against WK, DW were nothing short of incredible.

Usyk on the other hand is much more proven as a boxer and ring tactician. You know he is a skilled fighter through and through. What is less certain about him are his abilities at heavyweight. What we know for sure is is definitely in the running for best heavyweight after beating the brakes off of AJ, however can he beat a 100% motivated and focused Fury? I don't know. We are going to have to tune in to find out.

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