Has time been unkind to Smokin' Joe?

late 1969....up to the FOTC, Frazier was considered unbeatable by his era contenders and was probably rated #6 of All-Time.

Now he gets pushed way down the List.

He only lost to Ali & Foreman.

 

I guess it depends on how much you go with the theory that great 13-15 stone heavies would stuggle with good 17-18 stone heavies.

 

I think very highly of Joe Frazier...a fighter through and through. What amazed me is his intensity. I don't favor that many over a Joe Frazier, a true ATG. Good post PhillyPhan.

 

Some people seem to fault Joe for his personal "demons" and bitterness, which I feel is bull****.

 

I consider him as great as Muhammad Ali.

 

One man features at the center of the whole affair and that is George Foreman. Ali is overrated because of his win in less than satisfactory fashion over Foreman and Frazier is underrated because of his losses to Foreman. Styles make fights, Too much is made of the loss. People forget how good prime Frazier was offensively. I find it strange in all honesty he took Ali to the limit over forty five rounds and in my opinion came out of them fights with the most merit. Ali is ranked by most as One, while Frazier languishes on the wrong side of ten, invariably lower for the most part. Someone with his movement and power head to head would fare very well against most fighters.

 

Two questions

How does Frazier come out of the 45 rounds better? The peak quotient card won't cut it as Ali was already past peak after the exile.

And how was Ali's victory over Foreman less than satisfactory?

 

You're prolly right :good, i was using Vaile's words.

 

I truly have no idea but i am sure it won't be long before someone that does comments. I'll look in the mean.

 

Wasn't it an NABF title fight?

 

Yes admittedly Ali was not in his prime, just as Frazier wasn't for the most part. Fighters primes are debatable and subjective, but i will concede the point, quite to the extent and it's influence on the outcome; as i said it's all subjective. Although to me there is not a great deal in it. Given the fact that frazier was rendered virtually blind in one eye in the latter half of his career and had the right closed in the third fight too, rendering him more a less defenceless, in spite of which he still kept pushing; i think he deserves a lot of respect. As for the content of the fight i feel Frazier comes out on top he was the one pushing the agenda coming forward taking shots to land his own, where as Ali was content to do light flurries and point score near the end of the rounds. Obviously i'm generalising here to some extent, but i feel overall Frazier did the better work. They were both great fighters, i just don't believe the gap in their respective rankings should be so large.

As for the Foreman fight I just don't like the tactics he employed, if any other fighter fought in that manner they would be severly criticised for it. Granted the whole situation unfolded because of Foremans stupidity, it doesn't make the fight any more palatable though.


My mistake over the rounds 41 not 45. Been a long time since i watched the fights.