Has wlad done enough such that he's began a new universally accepted lineage?

Okay, this is good, but it is too fluid. Do you want a system were two fighters decide which will concede and which will be the world champion? This stuff has to be decided by combat between the two best who are also the main two claimants.

 

Hearns at LMH. Right. No other claim warrants recognition. And I love Hearns. I love Duran too. He's got 2. Not 4. I did an essay once about Duran called "The Fourth Crown." That title has to change.

Right.... Leonard has 3. Oscar has 3. Floyd has 3. Pacquiao has 4.

Yes, though I wouldn't say the world picture was clear before 1920. It can be pretty tough to figure out who is on the throne when you have divisions that no one cared about yet, that the champions didn't defend, or that were confused with other divisions. Add to that competing claimants. It can be done though, because claimants weren't so averse to fighting other claimants. McGrain illustrated this in his "Welcome to Hell" series about Stanley Ketchel.

After 1920, you had the NBA and the NYSAC. However, it is not true that they were always at odds. More often than not, they agreed on who was who. There are exceptions (Thil, etc.) but these were worked out.

Today is a whole different story. You have the worst of both worlds. You have a whole mess of claimants and then you have 3 "recognized" sanctioning bodies that do not cooperate and that are at odds with each other.

Carbo? At least Carbo didn't stand in the way of good match-ups. And the graft and cronyism hasn't ended at all. He made guys carry opponents and sometimes tank but today you have compromised judges in pockets and a surplus of organizations stripping rightful champions on pretexts.

As to mandatory defenses... when it comes to the past, I don't think we should strip guys now for what happened then. I sure as hell don't think we should honor the WBA's decisions to strip guys because their credibility is somewhere at the level of fecal matter.

However, if boxing gets right, champions really have to be obligated to defend their title. If they don't, then it becomes abandonment -and there are champions in the past who effectively abandoned their thrones.

 

Well, I think that the racism of the early 20th century has been a bit overstated when it came to the boxing fans of the day. Dixon and Gans and several others were praised often in the newspapers by white reporters.

Yes, keeping in mind that there was no commission to speak of. The press and to a less degree that public actually proclaimed the champion. There was graft then, yes, and it's more murky because boxing lived in the shadows, but it's about all we can go by besides looking at the level of competition. I for one put weight on instances where the American Champion fought the English Champion for the early history of Queensberry boxing. That suggests to be that it's a "world" title being fought out.

Let's be honest- your's is much more fun than my drudgery.

Yep -Apostoli beat Thil and so became the champion.

Wlad can only be recognized if he defeats the #1 guy, whomever that is. If someone, anyone, usurps Vitali's #1 ranking and Wlad defeats that #1, then he's on the throne. It's that simple.

 

Do you have that info handy?

 

That looks good to me!

 

What do you guys make of the increased divisions.

Going by your list, if we had the standard 8 divisions, we would see 4- Fly light middle and light heavy all filled. Plus with Floyd Pac on the cards at Welter and Klitchsko Klitxhsko pretty much the knwon top 2 despite the vacancy, things would certainly be a lot clearer.

 

I don't like some of the jr. divisions, though we need to remember that many of them were in fact created by the Walker Law and were dormant for years/decades. My successions allow for them, though they are also considered something less than the thrones of the glamour divisions. The reason for that is to encourage and funnel them into greater rewards.

The public needs simplicity.

 

Exactly how do you rate Khan over Bradley @ 140 and Pacquiao over Floyd @ 147?

Did you consult with a palm reader?

What has Khan done @ 140 other than get a gift over Marcos Maidana?

When is the last time Pacquiao fought a welterweight @ the *147lb* limit who was NOT coming off of a loss?

 

17 is too many but the old school 8 + 140 is too few.

 

Ok, so are you saying that you have Floyd ahead of Manny @ 147?

You're kidding, right? Bradley didn't "duck" Khan. That's a load of BS.

And Khan looked like S H I T against Maidana. Marcos brought out the ***** in him. Poor Amir looked like he was ready to quit in those later rounds. If anything, Marcos deserves a rematch seeing as he got Brinks Jobbed in that fight. Too bad Khan won't even let himself get within 500 miles of Marcos.

And please tell me exactly what significance the Judah fight is supposed to have? What has Khan done @ 140 other than get a gift over Marcos Maidana? Beating Zab Judah amounts to squat.