Have Ali ever claimed he won the first Frazier fight?

I'm pretty sure that immediately after the fight, like while still in the ring that night, Ali claimed that he had won. As far as I know it was only years later, after he'd beaten Frazier twice to win the series, that he admitted that Frazier won the first one.

 

Immediately after, yes.

 

Which of 1-5, 9-10 and 13-14 can't you see for Ali?

I just rewatched rds 9-10 and 13-14. 9 and 14 were clearly Ali's and he outlanded Frazier in 10 and 13 as well, but Frazier was dictating the action for much of those with his aggression. I do think there's an argument for Ali winning all those four, but certainly three of them.

Then we have rds 1-5 where Ali clearly was outlanding Frazier, but Frazier had Ali rocked once or twice with heavier blows. He was also the aggressor of course, but a lot of that aggression was walking through Ali's bombardment. I don't think I've ever seen a HW fight where the winner was taking this much punishment in the first five. Maybe not in any division.

I certainly can't give Frazier more than two of these and I think there's a clear case for Ali sweeping them. The momentum was swinging in Fraziers favour in round five, but from memory he gave it away by clowning. I'll watch that again.

EDIT: Round five is very close, with Frazier clearly having the better of the first minute byt then losing some of his momentum by clowning and Ali comes on in the later half. An argument can certainly be made for Ali winning this round, but my feeling after watching it now is that Frazier had the better of it. Even would also be perfectly fine.

Round for round I think this is a razor close fight. With a ten must system Frazier gets 10-8 in rd 15 and maybe in 11 as well, though, and clinches the win.

 

This was my card when I scored it a couple years ago.

1. Ali
2. Ali
3. Frazier
4. Frazier
5. Ali
6. Frazier
7. 10-10
8. Frazier
9. Ali
10. Ali
11. Frazier
12. Frazier
13. Frazier
14. Ali
15. Frazier

I suspect I may have been a bit generous to Frazier in the first 5 rounds but after Ali's great start to the 1st round I felt Frazier was slowly starting to close the gap a lot even in those rounds. I think I was generous to Ali in R7 though. I may have overstated the disagreement I think it was more competitive fight than people give credit for.

 

Saw the fight live on CCTV on March 8, 1971...Joe beat his ass...Frazier had nothing left after this fight. He was never the same again! You would have had to kill him that night to beat him! NOBODY said then that Ali won the fight! That's all "revisionist" BS...

 

The fact that Ali did claim that he’d won was one of the things that sent Frazier’s hatred of him into hyperspace, Wookie.

See, Joe had this very naive attitude that he’d settled the issue with Ali once and for all in FOTC. He of course didn’t.

As far as the scoring, I think Mercante and Aidala had it right. I’ve always wondered what fight Recht was watching or if he had on a Cloverlay T-shirt underneath his coat and tie.

 

Yeah, just rewatched the first four as well, and the ones I disagree the most about with the above are rds 3-4. Frazier come on strong in the last 10-20 seconds of both and rocked Ali, but Ali dominated the rest of them and must win them for that reason imo. In the third it was literally the last 10 seconds that belonged completely to Joe, but that just isn't enough when the other guy has been on top for the rest of the round. So 1-4 to Ali imo and I don't see a good argument for them not to be.

On the other hand I had the 5th and 7th for Frazier, so we're not far apart concerning the total. How do you feel about the 13th? Rds 5, 10 and 13 are the close ones imo. Rds 1-4, 9 and 14 are clear for Ali, and 6-8, 11-12 and 15 clear for Frazier imo. With rds 11 and 15 of course being the most one-sided.

As an aside, I have to say that while there's endless talk about Ali's excessive holding in the rematch hardly anything is said about Frazier's many punches that stray a bit low and his use of the head. "Frazier makes good use of the head on the inside" as Dunphy put it. Frazier use of the head was also something Ellis's camp highlighted before their fight.

 

Initially, Ali said he thought he won. As has every undefeated fighter taking a decision in his first loss. No real news there.

in an NBC special years later, already affected by Parkinson’s, Ali said he lost. The years had allowed him to put his guard down.

 

Probably because, however wrong they are, ones regarded as 'fighting' and the other is regarded as 'not fighting'.

 

Long time no see.

Nah, even here in Classic, Ward has his fair share of detractors for "cheating" against Kovalev. They're dead quiet about this, though. You'd expect at least a mention now and then.

 

As a big fan of Conteh and The Deal (both experts with their 'noggin') i've always been fine with it. If, say, Bonecrusher or Akinwande had waded into Tyson or Lewis (respectively) with their swedes, rather than hugging them all night, I think everyone would have preferred it.

 

Sure, prefer it is one thing, but we're talking crickets on the other. Nothing. Even from the "Kovalev was robbed" whiners.

 

Aye...but as much as I liked Bivol's work in the last 3 rounds here, wouldn't it be even better if he came out in Round 10 and threw the head in.

 

Would be a lovely switch.

 

In the studio brawl leading up to the rematch, when they were watching up to like the 10th round Frazier thought he won about 7 of them while Ali said he won all the rounds so far. That and calling him ignorant just pissed Frazier off even more.