Have any of Klitschko brothers made the top 20 ATG list?

Both Brothers Top 20 (as of right now). No doubt about it folks.




Larry

 

I'd say he belongs in the top 20 just for shear domination. Fought against a bunch of skilless bums with NO athletisism so will never break the top 10 in my opinion... it's not so much his fault but in my opinion this is the very worst era for HW contenders EVER

 

Even if their great now, but i doubt it. Maybe top 50

 

That was my point exactly!

 

Relax. You don't have to undermine Tyson in order to make Wlad's accomplishments look better.

The 1980s had a pretty decent Heavyweight division that was spoiled by the introduction of the alpha titles. Up until Tyson emerged on the scene people had the "Ali hangover" almost disrespecting Larry Holmes. Many didn't really consider him a great champ despite his many accomplishments until years after.

Just to go through Tyson's list of opponents to explain to you that they were not "bums" but his overwhelming talent made him look that way.

Tyson TKO2
1. Trevor Berbick (WBC Champion - wins over John Tate, Greg Page and Pinklon Thomas) Rugged fighter decent win.

Tyson UD12
2. James Bonecrusher Smith (WBA Champion - wins over Frank Bruno, Mike Weaver, Tim Witherspoon) Big Puncher, boring but one sided fight, decent win.

Tyson TKO6
3. Pinklon Thomas (Former WBC Champion - wins over Tim Witherspoon, Mike Weaver - Thomas was at one point considered to be the heir apparent to Larry Holmes's title. He lost his title to Berbick but he was largely considered to be a better fighter). Good win.

Tyson UD12
4. Tony Tucker ( 35-0 IBF Champion - wins over James Broad, Buster Douglas 6 years later he'd extend Lennox Lewis to the full 12 giving a good account of himself) Good win.

Tyson TKO7
5. Tyrell Biggs (15-0 1984 Olympic Gold Medalist who beat Lennox Lewis for the Gold) He was a rising contender in the division. Frankly looking back he was more impressive than the current "Philly Fighter" Eddie Chambers. Even Larry Merchant was among the few that picked Biggs to win based on his impressive jab and great lateral movement. Tyson ruined him in a fight which he got stronger and stronger as the rounds wore on. Good Win.

Tyson TKO4
6. Larry Holmes - Yes he was 38 coming off a layoff, but he was the same age that Lennox Lewis was when he beat Vitaly Klitschko. His layoff wasn't long enough to be a big factor especially since he was preparing for Tyson back when Mike fought Tyrell Biggs. After the Biggs fight check the post fight interview which includes Larry Holmes. Also Larry Holmes went on to beat Ray Mercer 4 years later more convincingly than Holyfield and Lewis, legitimately earning a title shot with Holyfield and extending him the full 12. Tyson did to him what nobody else has ever been able to do. Good Win.

Tyson TKO2
7. Tony Tubbs - (Former WBA Champion - wins over Greg Page, Bonecrusher Smith, Bruce Seldon. Three years later he would give future HW Champion Riddick Bowe all he could handle in a close decision loss that could have been scored in his favor). Good Win.

Tyson KO1
8. Micheal Spinks - (31-0 Former IBF Heavyweight Champion -wins over Larry Holmes 2x, Gerry Cooney). Everyone makes a big deal about Spinks being a light heavyweight when they seem to forget that throughout history LHW have moved up in weight and had success. Michael Moorer did it in the 90s and James Toney did it in the post 2000s and now Tomasz Adamek is doing it now and if Wlad beats him, he would get alot of credit. Well Spinks was better than all of those fighters and was largely expected to give Tyson a good fight. Great Win.

Tyson TKO5
9. Frank Bruno I - (win over Gerrie Coetzee) Bruno was a Top 10 and mandatory that Tyson hadn't gotten to yet. Big Puncher. Decent Win.

Tyson TKO1
10. Carl Williams - Top 10 contender. Tyson got rid of him quick.

L to Buster Douglas: Wlad had Purity, Sanders and Brewster who were all inferior to Douglas. Watch Douglas on film and compare him to Purity, Sanders and Brewster. In any case this was a bad loss that regardless of excuse is still Tyson's fault. He would never get a chance to avenge it.

Tyson KO1
11. Henry Tillman- Comeback fight against a Bum.

Tyson TKO1
12. Alex Stewart - Top 10 Contender who just went life and death with Evander Holyfield. Tyson blew him out. Average win.

Tyson TKO7 & Tyson UD12
13 & 14. Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock I & II - (WBA, WBC, IBF #2 Contender) Ruddock was the #2 contender in the world after Tyson who had just lost the titles. He was considered a dangerous fight at the time moreso than Haye is now. After 2 brutal fights Tyson proved that the Douglas fight was a fluke and Ruddock's stock skyrocketed. In fact both Holyfield and Bowe ducked Ruddock and it was Lewis who had to step up and face him. Very Good wins.

Notable wins after Prison:

Seldon (WBA Champ) - TKO1
Bruno II (WBC Champ) - TKO3
Botha (Former IBF Champ) - KO5
Golota (#9 WBC Contender)* - TKO3 later NC

As you can see Tyson beat a list of decent competition and unlike Wlad, was the undisputed champion of the world. Wlad has never unified and because of his brother will never unify. Wlad is Top 20, but to suggest that he's overtaken Mike Tyson is silly; Not because I disagree but because Tyson's level of opposition was slightly better and he was champion by himself without anyone else making their claim.

 

Yea.. Only David Haye fought very skillful and prime opponents

 

I feel like they should be there, but we can only base these rankings on résumés and there's not enough good fighters on theirs. It's not their fault, but who said life was fair ? Look, Vitali hasn't lost around in the last few fights so it's obvious he could beat much much better opponents if they were available. I'm pretty sure that both would KO Haye without much problems and he's maybe the third or 4th best heavy.

 

Are you honestly ARSED writing THAT much to this thread? do you think a lot of peoeple gona read it ? or at least read it to the end? Brevity the sister of talent.

 

I'm sorry you find that challenging.

 

Hmmm, based on skills and h2h comparison I think Vilaty is above Wlad,
based on accomplishments, Wlad is in front, but they are still not finished yet.
A scalps like Haye, Adamek, Solis are still increasing their status.

So I would think right now the places between 15-20 are up for both of them.
Definitely if they fight eachother, then the clear winner may have a case for
top 10-15, maybe even cracking top 10?

 

first i red it. second i didn't want to undermine tyson, but the other poster is very annoying and i git a little bit caught up.

tyson was a very good fighter, top 10 all time heavyweight. but imo he hadn't faced real good fighters who could test him. holyfield and lewis are top 10 too. but they completly dominated tyson. he had good wins, but imo it's on the same level like wlads wins. wlad will go on for at least 3 years and i bet he will beat haye, adamek, and a couple of other good ranked contenders. then he will be champ for what 8 years. thats a lot of time and if you look then at his record, it will be something like 60-3 with 54 ko's. thats imo top 5 material. h2h tyson vs wlad, i have no idea and i don't like to debate about that. but wlad of the last years looks unbeatable. he has the best jab in heavy history, period, one of the best straight rights and one of the deadliest left hooks + great strategy(stewart) and good ring general ship. it's true he is missing true challangers. but thats not his fault. he beats every one in front of him and lets them look like amateurs. they can't even connect once on his chin in the whole fight.

tyson was great:deal

 

Don't let those guys get you frustrated.

I post mainly in the classic forum and after being skeptical for a few years I've grown to appreciate Wladimir. He is the Larry Holmes of the post 2000. He's been champ for a while and he's come after the Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson era and because he never really connected with American fans he gets downplayed alot.

Well as long as he continues to win he'll be appreciated even if it's after he retires. But he does need to unify in order to do that Vitaly has to lose to David Haye. Why? If Haye beats Vitaly, his stock goes up because it proves that he is in fact a good Heavyweight. If Wlad then in turn beats Haye, the quality of the win increases.

Think Foreman, Frazier, Ali

 

it's difficult to not get frustrated especially if there are some real dumb people out there who are allowed to use the internet. i read a lot of stuff in the classic forum, but i'm not a fan of boxing before 1960 and i don't like the nostalgic people. they love way too much there teenager heros from the 60, 70, or 80. i'm watching boxing since 1994. and at heavy i have only seen a couple of guys who real impressed me. thats holyfield (the guy was great, never give up attitude, heart of a champion, tough as nails, and a great boxer); Lennox Lewis ( he was the complete package, but he is a guy who thinks after a couple of wins that he is the greatest), Vitali Klitschko ( akward, smart, great power, good defense and very difficult to fight, and his best asset is that he has the best stamina for a heavyweight i have seen), wlad of right now (best pure boxer of the last 20 years, since holmes, freakish power, smart, great jab, great right, great hook, and his main asset, which every one underrate is that he is unbelievble fast, he hast the fastest hands for a champion since tyson and very good footwork and he makes fight your his fight) and chris byrd ( i rate him very high, he would give every champion of the past hell (akward, slick great defense and great counter puncher and very fast). These guys i rate very high of the last 20 years. i don't like bowe, because he was too short in the limelight. he wasn't disciplined enough to stay in shape for a couple of years.

and my opinion is that haye should fight vitali and win and make the vlad fight way bigger. but i hope for this scenario:
wlad fights haye in july( i think this will really happen) and adamek fights vitali in september. wlad knocks out haye in a mismatch, and adamek hopefuly can run to a decision against vitali ( if adamek is smart then he really trys to run and pot shot vitali, vitali slowed down and adamek can make him miss, and thats where i hope vitali could get injured and adamek win the fight. and then we would have wlad vs adamek for all titles.
wlad would knock him out, i would bet money on that

 

Well here's the thing guys who are nostalgic about fighters before 1960 feel the same way about those fighters that you feel about modern fighters.

Here's some fights you should watch that may expand your horizons:

Ali Frazier III
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxyZbAdhVfY&feature=related[/ame]

Louis Baer (just a clip but it starts at 1:10)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeHSseSpTvY&feature=related[/ame]

Marciano Walcott I
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY_1eboReY0&playnext=1&list=PLB6D1799F7AA42D81[/ame]

Liston Patterson I & II
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrgILByIk50[/ame]

Check out this link of Sugar Ray Robinson.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e991-NLbUsA&feature=related[/ame]

Start with those, even if it doesn't change your mind the exposure along is worth it.