Have boxing skills progressed, or have they regressed?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Loudon, Jun 22, 2013.


  1. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    That's nonsense of course. Every imaginable sport (track & field, chess, tennis, swimming etc. etc.) has improved, just like boxing has over the last 100 years.
     
  2. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    There's zero difference. Both are sports that work on athleticism, workouts, training, strategy. The only difference I give you is that one is a team sport and the other one isn't.
     
  3. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    You can laugh, but there's a world of difference between boxing and basketball.


    Ray Robinson's peak was 70 years ago.

    So lets match him with today's WW's.


    Let's match Duran from the 70's with today's LW's.


    Are you going to laugh at me if I say:


    "Roberto Duran, a LW from 40 years ago, would probably rule today's division."

    Or

    "Ray Robinson, a WW from 70 years ago, would most likely rule today's division."

    ?

    Doesn't seem so funny does it?
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    None of those sports can compare directly to a fighters skillset.

    Just because Usain Bolt is the fastest man ever to run the 100m, that doesn't mean that today's fighters have better technique and more skills than fighters of the past.

    Bolt is bigger, stronger, has a better diet, runs on a better surface and has better training equipment than sprinters of the past.

    Sports science and nutrition etc, play a huge part in his field.

    But sports science, nutrition and technology, aren't going to be as important to someone who has to master the following.

    Footwork
    Blocking
    Parrying
    Slipping
    Timing
    Jabbing
    hooking
    Body shots
    Uppercuts
    etc.


    Usain Bolt is considered the greatest sprinter of all TIME.


    Ray Robinson is still considered the best fighter of all time, yet his peak was 70 years ago.


    You can't compare an athlete that's racing against a clock, to someone who fights another man in a ring.


    Comparing a swimmer or a sprinter to a boxer, is like comparing night and day.


    They are completely different.
     
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    If you think there's ZERO difference between a basketball player and a boxer, then I despair.
     
  6. reed_man02

    reed_man02 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i have to say progressed. in the eighties guys like duran leonard chavez were around. nineties had holy, pea, and finito. now we got pbf, jmm, morales, pac and ward.
     
  7. reed_man02

    reed_man02 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    lots of basketball fans consider bill russell or wilt tha stilt that best ever, and they were around in the seventies. did the nba regress??

    lots of soccer/football fans consider pele the best ever. did that sport regress?

    babe ruth is still considered the best baseball player ever and he's older than suger ray!
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don't mean progressed as in become more popular, with lots of great fighters, and more interest etc.

    I'm referring to specific skills as a whole, across all weight classes.

    You've only named modern examples.

    Have modern day fighters got more skills than fighters of the past?

    Have fighters today generally got

    Better footwork?
    Do they throw better hooks?
    Better jabs?
    Do they parry better?
    Do they block better?
    Have they got better timing?
    Do they throw better body shots?
    Are they better conditioned?
    Do they throw better combinations?
    Do they throw better uppercuts?
    Are they better at fighting on the inside?
    Have they got better head movement?

    etc
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    They're good points, but again, they can't really be compared to two fighters facing each other in a ring.

    Also, I've heard people say on here, that Pele and Maradona wouldn't be effective in today's game, which in my opinion is complete and utter nonsense.

    People are saying that Leo Messi is the greatest footballer ever, which is open to debate, but I don't have a problem with.

    But if boxing skills have progressed as a whole, then surely today's best fighters across all weight classes, have to be the best of all time?

    But they're not.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    It is important to understand that skills do get lost over time.

    The lost wax casting process is an obvious example.

    Cro Magnon man produced flint tools of such intricacy, that no modern craftsman has ever been able to replicate them.

    The main reason why we will probably never have another Mike Tyson, is that there is no longer a Cus DaMatto to train him.

    Even so, the greatest modern fighters such as Hopkins and Toney, will study old film if they have to, in order to learn the black arts.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Great post!

    Toney and Hopkins are throwbacks. They've had great trainers over the years, and Bernard's favourite fighter is Archie Moore.

    Old school skills have been passed onto them through great knowledge.

    Toney says that he used to get pounded every single day in the gym, until he'd perfected his shoulder roll technique etc.

    Have you ever seen footage of the old Kronk fighters spar?

    It's an absolute pleasure to watch.
     
  12. Ringrat

    Ringrat Amateur Full Member

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    The simple fact that 40 yr old boxers can compete successfully is proof that the current crop is worse than the old time fighters. How many 40-something hockey or football players are stars today?
     
  13. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How many fighters today do I see going to the body and throwing uppercuts? How do you expect me to answer that, with a number or what? I see plenty of fighters doing that. At the higher level, there are few who don't. Wlad doesn't throw many body punches but neither did Ali.

    As for blocking and parrying, what are you saying - that boxers now just punch each other in the face without even trying to defend themselves? That's ridiculous and makes you look like a certifiable lunatic. You are suggesting that fighters today are literally ******ed or something.

    You talk about Tyson studying old school techniques for hours on end but Tyson couldn't fight inside and couldn't fight his way out of a clinch - that's why he was so easy to tie up.

    I told you that average fighters didn't live in the gym, they worked regular jobs (often more than one) just like they do today.

    So post the film evidence then. Show us what you think is so special, all these wonderful techniques that have been lost. Let me tell you, you will fall flat on your face when forced to present REAL EVIDENCE.
     
  14. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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    More nonsense. Some technologies were lost when they were completely eclipsed by new ones. Even this is unlikely today, because the details of any major technology would be recorded somewhere, even if it became obsolete. However, relevant skills in a particular field such as boxing do not magically become lost - that's absurd.
     
  15. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    Boxing is no longer a popular sport. Less people box and therefore the talent pool is smaller. Add to that the politics that allows guys like Floyd and Broner to handpick their way to the top, then you have a severly depleted level of boxing compared to the past.