How bout Joe Parker or Alexander Povetkin then. There comes a time when physics come into play. Too difficult to get on the inside without getting hurt and cant reach these bigger guys with serious power who train for it, ala Klitchsko and Joshua. Can you imagine Frazier vs Miller? 5'11 200-210 vs 6'4 300. Miller would annialate him, it would be like a Welterweight vs Light Heavyweight. And unless you have a head/chin like a tree trunk like Miller does, its going to be very difficult for a 6'2-6'4/225-235 guy to reach the top at heavyweight, especially when you already have another generation of 6'6 monsters like Yoka, Joyce, Hrgovic, Dychko only 18-24 months away from cracking top 10. Not saying they cant be competitive, but the superheavies rule the heavyweight division of today, and will do for a long time in the future, its just physics working in their advantage in the open division.
I wouldn't say they've gotten much bigger, since 6'4" and taller heavyweights that are over 230lbs weren't exactly rare in the past. However, then and now exists diminishing returns with too much size. Joshua realized the hard way that against top competition that being 245+ wasn't going to cut it. Parker would be a much more mobile fighter and would have better stamina if he stayed between 218-225. At 235+ he's slow as molasses and can't sustain throwing any combinations without tiring out. James Broad 6'4" 235 vs. Bonecrusher Smith 6'4" 246 This content is protected Roy William 6'5" 238 lbs vs. Larry Holmes 6'3" 205 lbs This content is protected Gerry Cooney 6'6" 238 lbs. vs Michael Spinks 6'2" 208 lbs This content is protected Anders Eklund 6'7" 234lbs vs. Frank Bruno 6'3" 227 lbs This content is protected Mike White 6'10" 275 lbs. vs. Michael Moorer 6'2" 225 lbs This content is protected
We can agree to disagree, but I find that statement ridiculous. Shape has everything to do with how a fighter performs. Joe for years was consistently between 205-208 lbs and was known for his mobility and head movement. Against Foreman in the first fight he was 214 lbs and was 224 lbs in the rematch and in both fights had poor headmovent and stamina problems. Also, Joe fought and beat bigger fighters than Foreman before, so size was irrelevant. This was also the case with Tyson, who was very hard to beat between 215-218, but at 225+ he was like post FOC Frazier, who was stiff and slow and very beatable. David Haye is another guy known for his speed and mobility and consistently around 210 and beat Valuev, who is far bigger than any top current heavyweight. However, in his return Haye showed up 10-15lbs heavier and age aside the weight slowed him down considerably. If Haye would've tried fighting Valuev at 220+ he would've been knocked out cold. This is why Charlie Goldman forced Marciano to train down to 185-190lbs even though Marciano was naturally a 200-205lb fighter. An extra 5-10lb can make or break a small heavyweight, since without their speed, mobility, and stamina advantage they'll be a sitting duck to the much larger heavyweights.
If you honestly think Williams, Cooney, Erklund and White are anywhere near the level of Joshua, Fury, Wilder, Klitschko when fighting smaller fighters , then yep, well agree to disagree. Frazier never lost because of weight or shape, he lost becuase he got his head completely smashed in against a much taller, heavier and stronger opponent. Did you ever think he carried a little extra weight because he was fighting such a huge guy? Can make all the excuses you like, Foreman destroyed Frazier, twice.
Frazier's style was made for Foreman also, it was not just the size..................fighters do not fight often enough today, they just sit on their titles, there should be rules that make a fighter fight at least 4 times per year, hell, in the old days fighters would fight once per month or even more often.....................remember Joe Louis' bum of the month? At least he was fighting a lot so fans could see him fight, mismatch or not..................not all were mismatches of course, but fans got to see him fight, better than watching sparring and today's house fighter fighting winos from the alley with 0 wins and getting knocked in all their fights!
Came on here and seen someone say that Breazeale, Miller and Parker would beat Joe Fraizer. *logs out*
Most definitely. Hed eat up Frazier on a Saturday night and have Tyson for dessert on a Tuesday. 2 small guys coming in trying to hold up and hit a 300 pound guy who comes forward with the head/chin of an oaktree and workrate of Miller? Miller would walk through and straight over the top of em.
Not really. Bowe, Lewis, Vitali, Wlad, and Joshua are pretty skilled even if other like Valuev, Whitaker, Wilder, and Fury suck.
Boxing--in general, has evolved to putting it's highest premium on the "horse in the race" so to speak over skill development and other factors. Physical profile, strength and conditioning, explosiveness, athleticism have seemingly become the highest commodity, for the fighters that have them or can achieve them. Guys that can't and don't have them, in-turn have to invest in skill development mostly to stay competitive. I think Mike Tyson and RJJ are the two main fighters that dictated this evolution in boxing the most prominently. Think of a boxer in military/infantry/artillery terms. Physical profile: Size and dimensions of the main force/weapon Athleticism/speed/explosiveness: the overall munitions/artillery the force or weapon is trying to land Skill & technical ability: How the force/weapon lands it's munitions/artillery and avoids/evades the return fire Note: I think that boxing has clearly placed it's premium on athleticism/speed/explosiveness, which in-turn has put a higher premium on strength and conditioning training ahead of skill development.
Miller is A very similar dimension fighter to buster Mathis Who fought in the sixties and seventies, 260 lbs plus 6ft 3 1/12 and a 78 to 80 inch reach but I would say Mathis was faster and better, and a 227 lbs Ali slapped him about and dominated him easy. Strength, speed, stamina and skill, after saying that Ali is the greatest of all time
Size is important but its not the end all. I remember Holyfield beating Bowe and the past prime version giving prime Lennox all he could handle in their 2nd. I would take prime Lennox over any of the current crop, AJ included, and would probably take Bowe as well if I thought about it long enough.
My take on the ts question is yes, the new crop are not as technically sound and their stamina is inferior. The cruisers are far better these days. Would love to see Usyk move up to test the waters against one of these mastadons.
