Have heavyweight skills declined as they've got bigger?

lol, no way was Buster Mathis better than Jarrel Miller, come on man, how? your crazy man. Lyle, Ali, Frazier, Quarry, every single time Mathis stepped up for a payday he got his ass handed to him. Apart from a sole victory over Canadian champ George Chuvalo, who had a sensational chin but also had his ass handed to him everytime he stepped up, there isn't a single recognizable name fighter that Mathis fought his whole career. Mathis was a club fighter, nothing more. Mathis dimensions is way off from Miller, Mathis was a seriously fat out of shape 240-260, Miller is a brick wall/tree trunk at 280-300. Jarrel Miller has just mopped the floor with 3 world title contenders in a row and barely raised a sweat. He was constantly used by the Klitchskos as a sparring partner because he's so tough, durable and has excellent skills for a man his size, before he got into boxing he was a champion kickboxer 22-2, only ever losing to Mirko Cro Cop, one of the greatest kickboxers/MMA fighters of all time. He's never been down or hurt in a fight, which given his style, is very impressive, he has a chin of iron. He has the highest punch output/work rate of any heavyweight, and he's 300 pounds! Go down to your gym and find a 300 pound guy, ask him to lean on you, forcing you to hold him up for 3 minutes and punch you 60-70 times, see how incredibly tired and exhausted you feel after only 1 round, and the dread you feel that you have 11 more suffocating rounds to go. Then you'll know why Jarrel Miller is considered so good, is considered the tko king, and is extremely avoided. Buster Mathis wouldn't even qualify as his shadow.

 

This ain’t kick boxing so irrelevant.
Millers weight goes between 245 -300 up and down, fat at 300, overweight at 260, like Mathis, but looking at them both at 260 they look similar except Mathis looks quicker on his feet, yeah Mathis got beat at world level he fought Ali ATG, Frazier ATG, Ron Lyle world champion contender, Chuvalo world champion contender, but Miller hasn’t fought for a world title or title contenders so Mathis has definitely fought the better quality of opponent so far, dumphas and Marius Wach are not in same league are you having a laugh.

 

Miller is extremely strong for a boxer, his strength and size will make him tough for anybody to beat. At 300 pounds he isn't fat, he is like George Foreman at 250, strong and conditioned. He is busy in the ring, throws a lot of punches and keeps the pressure on his opponent. Nobody likes to be pressured, as long as Miller continues to train hard and stay in condition to throw a lot of punches he'll be a force at heavyweight.

 

That remains to be seen but this brings us back too the original thread if a very good heavyweight can show movement side to side, lateral movement and speed have decent chin and plenty of heart at 220lbs ie Ali or Holmes type etc,these super heavies of today will expel a hell of a lot of energy just throwing punches lugging 250 plus around catching air as well as getting hit. There is no doubt the majority of these SHW have stamina problems, I mean can you imagine your man keeping that work rate up in 120 degrees in the ring in Manila or Zaire or kwalalumpa I doubt it, the point is because they are all massive guys nobody puts any real pressure on Each other and like I said earlier Ali man handled 260 pound easy and 230 odd in Bugner etc so I definitely think the overall skill has declined and all that weight doesn’t mean they would get steam rollered.

 

Mathis weighed 256 for Ali and had been out of the ring for over 2.5 years and weighed 21.5 pounds more than he did for his last fight over 2.5 years prior. Mathis was not a strong weight lifter like Miller, he was chubby at 235 pounds, he got even fatter while he was away from boxing. It could be argued that Ali had to go 12 rounds with an out of shape, inactive fighter just because the fighter was bigger than anybody Ali had fought previously.

NO boxer who has not fought Miller has ever faced anybody like him. He is a first of his kind, 6-4, 300 pounds and extremely busy in the ring. Miller might lose when he faces a Wilder, Joshua, or Povetkin, or he might not, but regardless, he is unique.

Other boxers and trainers will take notice, if Miller is successful we'll see more 300 pounders, if he is not, we'll still see boxers and trainers take some of what Miller is doing and use it. Either way, Miller has shown that boxers don't need to be skinny to be busy in the ring and do rounds.

 

While the talent seems to rise or fall every 10 years or so, the rules of engagement have changed.

Lennox Lewis used to say, he's never seen a boxer like me, referring to his size and skills. Back in the mid-1990's he was correct as there were few very few guys his height who could box and punch. Now there a lot of them, and even the semi-skilled big men who can punch have to be respected.

This is my opinion has changed the rules of engagement to caution, limiting some of the infighting, and putting a premium on the ability to deliver punches with power at a distance. The need for quick feet and footwork has been magnified. They used to say any man over 200 pounds can hurt you. True, but these days you talking about guys 30 or more pounds over 200.

Smaller /shorter fighters, just can't seem to work their way in like they used to.

Essentially heavyweight boxing is very different than other divisions. The x factors / variables can differ more so at heavyweight than any other division.

 

Like I said before miller weighed only 245 lbs not long back, boxers do go up and down in weight eg Mathis weighed 243-44 pounds ( not that chubby) in 1968 for his world title fight with Frazier.I just pointed out that at 256 -260 miller and Mathis had similar dimensions except Mathis has a better resume at this stage, 260 is probably the best weight for miller, not 300lbs, I will be very surprised if most heavyweight’s start trying to be 300lbs even if he becomes HW champ. He does have a Good work rate for his size but it makes it more highlighted because the other SHW have poor output, You say he is unique he ain’t done nothing yet apart from beat nobodies like most heavies with 22 fights do, for now he just looks like another Mathis or tubbs but fatter or heavier, only time will tell but all in all modern day heavies have less skill, less stamina and less movement which they have substituted for a bit more power.

 

No, I don't think size is the issue but that's not to say it didn't help either. There were plenty of tall and larger heavies in the nineties and they were more skilled than todays heavyweight. There are just not as many ppl teaching fundamentals today.

 

Who are the killers that Joshua, Fury, Wilder, and Klitschko beat to make them so superior to past big men?

Gerry Cooney had wins over Jimmy Young, Ron Lyle, Ken Norton. Conney knocks everyone out on Joshua's resume except maybe Wlad, but Wlad was reitred old and shot when he fought Joshua, so there is a good chance Cooney could beat that version. Fury has a win over Cunningham, who was old and past prime and an Old and past prime Wlad, which isn't exactly the stuff that legends are made of. Wilder has Stiverne from 2015, which was a good win and Ortiz was a good win, but neither is better than Jimmy Young, Ron Lyle, or Ken Norton.

Anders Eklund had wins over Steffan Tangstad, who had a draw over a prime Buster Douglas and a win over Joe Bugner. Eklund faced stiff competition like Bruno, who had a much better jab and offensive output than Joshua or Fury and Tim Whiterspoon, who is a much more dangerous fighter than anyone Joshua, Wilder, or Fury ever faced.

Mike White was a legit 6'10" and had an 87" reach. Fury's 6'9" height listing seems dubious at best, since 6'7" seems a lot more likely. I've met Wlad before and he's 6'5" at best. Also, Helenius towered over both Joshua and Wlad, who are both supposed to be 6'6", but he was easily 2-3 inches taller than both. That aside Mike White struggled with smaller guys that were quick on their feet and had power, but against guys that were 6'5" and taller he had an easy time neutralizing their right hands and jabs. Mike White cleans out Fury's resume, since White destroys Cunningham and Chisora, and also would make the shot Wlad that Fury fought hesitate throughout the whole fight. White also cleans out Joshua's resume. I also think he cleans out Wilder's resume for now. Mike White took everything a prime Buster Douglas could ditch out for 9 rounds and knocked Buster Down and ended him.

 

Miller is a fat slob that would've never got anywhere near the top 10 in the past. He's fought nothing but weak competition and still looked horrible. He makes Whyte look special, which is saying something. Comparing him to Foreman is a big joke, since Foreman actually beat top competition as both a young and old man. When Miller steps up he'll get bodied by either Wilder or Joshua.

Miller looking like garbage against Washington, who is a novice that Wilder toyed with for a couple of rounds and easily beat.

This content is protected

Miller looking like garbage against Duhaupas, who wasn't even in good shape.

This content is protected

Miller looking like garbage against Wach, who is past prime and was out of shape.

This content is protected

 

Old shot Wlad would have koed old shot Young, Norton and Lyle right along with prime glass chinned Cooney

 

Lol, have you even seen Miller at 300? Hes in fantastic shape, you can still see his abs, the weight is distributed even around his body, has the legs of tree trunks, he looks sensational. Lol, Mathis better than Miller, go away, do some homework.

 

Don’t be silly blind man he’s a fat boy, there are three videos above showing him for everyone to see (ABS) you can see I don’t think so, i have already pointed out earlier Mathis has fought the more quality competition so far. you need to do some homework miller has fought nobody, and done nothing and he’s alright for an overweight fighter that’s it.

 

You ESB people have warped my mind. The first thing I thought when I read this thread title was.........SNV!
~ end thread.