Haye, Adamek, Dawson - best P4P of them right now?

Beating Valuev and Ruiz is not on par with beating Arreola and Estrada. The latter 2 are hungry guys in their prime, and Adamek beat them. Valuev was simply awful, and was equally awful in previous fights (if you have any illusions about Valuev, check out Holyfield-Valuev). Haye himself mocked Ruiz's status as undeserving and his record of losses to middleweights Jones Jr and Toney.

The reason Haye is where he is today is he put together a good string of wins in the last part of his cruiserweight reign....Frag then Mormeck then Enzo; all respectable opponents. But since then both Frag and Enzo have been beaten up and are no longer Top 5 cruisers.

Cunningham or Adamek would have posed more challenges, but Haye never fought them. In fact Haye only defended his belt once, while Adamek defended his cruiserweight title twice.

Haye hasn't been tested at heavyweight. We have no idea if he could hang with an Arreola or a Grant or an Estrada. Sure, Haye would be favored in all those fights. But he'd have to go a full 12 rounds with each of them and none of them are as slow as Valuev.

 

Dawson was hugely overrated and Thompson was/is hugely underrated the only reason Adameks loss looks better to me is because Dawson was younger

 

Yes, I agree with that to some extent. This still doesn't mean that Dawson and Thompson are on equal pound for pound level and hopefully that's not what you're implying.

 

I think that they are all close. It depends on how do you rate p4p.
By skill alone, Dawson by a mile,
By the opposition faced its clearly Adamek
By numbers of bells collected its Haye

I personally rate opposition faced very high (its the most important factor to me), I rate skill equally with heart and additional factor that I consider is toughness. I rate skill equally with heart, because skill without heart means nothing, as heart to fight without skill means nothing. Toughness is a factor that may decide when I rate 2 fighters equal.

So to me its
Adamek
Haye
Dawson

And as I said its mainly because the opposition faced. I think that Adamek clearly faced the best opposition from these 3. Briggsx2 (2xWin), Ulrich (W), Dawson (L) at 175, Cunningham (W) and Banks (W) at 200, Estrada (W) and Arreola (W) at HW. They all were young fighters near their prime.

Haye beat only 2 good fighters near their prime: Enzo and Fragomeni (he was old, but still in his prime I think).

And Dawson beat only 1 good fighter near his prime: Adamek. And lost to another (Pascal)

All 3 beat numbers of old has beens:
Adamek: Bell, Golota, Grant
Dawson: Tarverx2, Johnsonx2
Haye: Mormeck, Barett, Valuev, Ruiz

 

Adamek deserves the greater plaudits for being active and winning fights no doubt but on pure talent its Haye. That doesnt cahnge the fact Haye is a lazy bullshitter with no guts , its just means he has more natural ability , he would proabaly beat Adamek , but i respect Adamek more.

 

i disagree with your final result but thats a nice post nonetheless !

 

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I think you have one of the most honest and I'd say best post in this thread. It amazes me how many people can only based things on who they like and dislike. There is no doubt of the three that Dawson is the most skilled and based on the fact that Haye has won the WBA Heavyweight Title he is the most accomplised. I love Adamek he has an exciting style and he has taken on all challenges so far but to say he is p4p better than Haye or Dawson is not fair by any criteria other than being more active.

 

Damn decent of you to say , especially as i forgot to even mention i had dawson at no.1 ( though i assumed it was a given )

 

You're only considering Haye's HW "accomplishment" at face value. Look at the manner in which Haye got the gift title shot (after a single HW fight against a lousy opponent), look who he fought against to get it, look how he actually fought to win it and look at how he's currently defending it. Its very simple, even Adamek's HW campaign is more substantial than Haye's and he's only been here half the time that Haye has. Adamek is fighting guys that are on average 65 lbs - 75 lbs heavier than opponents in his initial weight division and he's winning.

On a pure talent level, Dawson is the most talented of the three. But p4p ought to be based on accomplishment especially when a fighter is successful in multiple weight divisions. Well, there ain't no bigger jump in weight than going from LHW - CW, something that neither Dawson nor Haye have done.

 

I agree that Dawson is the most talented of them.
I agree that Haye may be the most accomplished
I stated that Adamek faced better opposition than Haye or Dawson.

To me the opposition you faced make you a p4p fighter. Not skill and not accomplishments (the number of belts you have won). I agree that both skill and accomplishments are useful and put you higher in the p4p ranking, but the opposition you faced is the bigger factor to me.

 

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