Haye still injured?

I was 7-8 years ago probably Hayes biggest fan. He's probably the best British cruiserweight of the last 20 years? He fought an all time great in Wlad who was stylistically a complete nightmare. Haye probably felt he just needed to land that one shot on a proven 'wobbly chin'.

When he came back I fell into the trap of genuinely believing he'd KO Eddie Hearns golden boy AJ. But after watching him now i genuinely believe he's a broken man and simply back to get a quick quid or two.

But to say Hayes career has been a fraud is far too much. He's a unified world champion and at one point was a force at heavyweight.
The version of Haye that beat Chisora would in my opinion knock AJ out quite comfortably.

 

It's Haye's best win.
It was a good KO.

Thing is, Tyson Fury's critics say "Fury has a sh!t resume outside of Wlad". Yet Fury beat Chisora twice. So, Chisora's a rubbish win when Fury does it twice (the second time very one-sidedly), but it's Haye's best win.

Likewise, an old injured Vitali Klitschko won a clear decision against Chisora in a "soft touch" defence", just one fight short of retirement at age 41.
It's not another mediocre title win on VK's resume.

Yet it's Haye's best win.
Chisora is probably the best he beat.
Maybe saggy old Valuev.

Haye's "mythical prime" is a big laugh. People talking about prime Haye would have done this and that to AJ, Fury etc. etc. ..... but prime Haye never went anywhere near anyone like that, a big young'live' heavyweight with good ability, unless you want to talk about his non-performance against Wlad Klitschko.

Fair play, he's one of your favourite fighters. That's a good reason to root for him.
But the talk of "prime Haye" is mostly laughable.

 

You don't understand promotion.
Good Guy vs Villain
Undefeated vs Undefeated
These are a promoter's dream.

Eddie Hearn knows how big it is. AJ knows how big it is.
Fury's the PERFECT ANTAGONIST for building the AJ legend.

 

Problem is there weren't too many live heavyweights around that time. Haye didn't need to do much to earn the Wlad fight. Aside from Chisora who was out there for him to box? Fury was still viewed as a joke opponent. Even when Haye signed to box Fury, the vast majority of fans and pundits thought it was a mismatch and Haye would destroy him. Price? Domestically Chisora was the best around and on the world level that's all he needed to try and earn the Vitali fight he wanted.

Fury's second win over Chisora was sublime. Chisora was very motivated and came in good shape and Fury ruined him with a jab. His first win was dodgy though. Not convincing. I think when you look at what Whyte went through with Chisora last year, and bear in mind Whyte gave Joshua hell with a shoulder injury, the fact that Haye just ran through a prime and motivated Chisora like he was nothing was decent. It's just a shame Haye was so poor against Wlad and never fought another live HW because he didn't have to.

 

Hayes Cruiserweight career is undeniable, he was very good. The Chisora win was great considering Its hard to take Chisora off his feet, especially quite easily..

 

Haye is too shop worn at this stage

 

Let's not re-write history.
Fighters like Povetkin and Chagaev and Chambers and Arreola and Peter were the other top HW fighters in Haye's "prime" days.When Haye made the move up from cruiserweight, those were the HWs around.
Haye fought Monte Barrett. Haye fought Audley Harrison. I'll give him a pass for Valuev, because Valuev had the WBA belt somehow, but Valuev was becoming well discredited at that point too.
I'll give him a pass for fighting has-been Ruiz, because somehow the WBA put Ruiz as mandatory ! But Ruiz hadn't had a good legit win in about 6 years or so.

Haye's strategy was clear and reasonable enough. Talking his way into a Wladimir Klitschko fight with a marvellous publicity campaign. Taking the path of least resistance to get there.

And let's be honest about the Chisora fight. The only reason he faced Chisora was because the brawl in Germany made it a very lucrative proposition : a brawl that occurred while (and due to) Haye AGAIN trying to talk his way into a Klitschko fight (this time Vitali, and this time completely unmerited).
It's not as if Haye was otherwise looking to prove himself against ranked or domestic opposition.

.... and Chisora's first loss to the novice Fury was clear enough. I don't think Chisora's subsequent showings against Helenius (he deserved a WIN) and Vitali (a clear LOSS) put him above Tyson Fury on the domestic scene, especially since Tyson Fury was himself improving at a similar rate.
So to say "domestically Chisora was the best around" isn't even accurate.

It's a very good win by Haye though.
A very good KO finish.
I can't say it any clearer than that.

I'm not looking to bash David Haye for no reason. He's obviously been a talented boxer and a very good puncher. But the heavyweight phase of his career has been very shallow relative to the following he's managed to gather and hold onto.

 

Haye beat Mormeck at cruiserweight. That was very good.
But that was a long time ago. Haye's been a HW for almost ten years now.

If his "prime" is his cruiserweight days, I'd say then it's even more ridiculous to talk about PRIME Haye beating someone like AJ.
I don't see AJ losing to any cruisers, especially ones who suffered knockdowns against lesser fighters (as Haye did back then.).

 

good post

 

Fair point about Povetkin but Haye had no reason to box him at the time. As a Haye fan I've said many times on here that I always wanted to see Haye v Povetkin as one of my dream fights.

But Chambers, Chagaev, Arreola and Peter would have been comfortable wins for Haye IMO. Chagaev would have gone down as a solid win. The rest had Haye beaten them back then would have now been viewed as nothing special - I'm sure of that. Peter would have been viewed as over the hill, Arreola as just a fat puncher and Chambers as not a true HW.

 

Chisora isn't Haye's best win, not even if we're limiting it to heavyweight.

It's not really fair to try and minimise him based on what he achieved at heavyweight because he campaigned at two weights and despite some not liking it, conquered both. You can criticise his heavyweight ledger up until Valuev, but it's easy to forget this was a cruiserweight attempting something great. When was the last time a cruiserweight won the heavyweight title after moving up from cruiser? Holyfield and Moorer from light heavy? That's not bad company to keep.

If you agree Wlad is an ATG then losing to him in his absolute prime is no disgrace.

Sure he could have fought Povetkin or Chagaev, but he didn't. His end goal was Wlad and there's no shame in that outcome.

 

With Haye is that,after that Chisora win,he should have started the quest again to be a Heavyweight Champion.But he is just so Injury Prone,and in reality a cruiserweight,but who will get my respect for moving up to Heavyweight where it could have put his health at risk,given the difference between a cruiserweight puncher which is what he was used to and a Heavyweight Puncher,i think Wlad had respect for that.That does take balls,look at Bellew he has constantly said he dosent want to go in the ring with Wilder and Joshua,rightly because of the size,i am not begrudging him,but Haye was in his position,10 years ago,and was probably a smaller cruiserweight than Bellew,and still wasnt scared and willingly took on Klitschko,who is probably slightly bigger than Joshua and Wilder.Haye still went 12 rounds with Wlad,which is a accomplishment in it self,but i remember watching that fight,it was because of the Toe debacle,that left a bitter taste and will therefore not get the respect,I am not a fanboy of Haye or anything like that,but compare his career and the opposition to that of Wilder,Bellew,It trumps it by a mile.

 

Maybe he would have beaten them, and maybe he wouldn't have received much credit for them.
That's very possibly true.

But the point I'm making is, Haye went an even easier route at heavyweight.
Therefore, there's just no evidence to say how well he really stacks up against a denser crop of contenders of THAT ERA, nevermind imagining him doing all sorts of damage to someone like Anthony Joshua.
And that's all you're really doing there, IMAGINING him doing more than he actually proved he could do.

 

Actually, yes I do understand promotion.

It is just you are talking rubbish.

 

He didn't "conquer" the heavyweight division. He picked up an "alphabet belt" (WBA) that had a very dubious recent lineage.

As for his win over Valuev being "something great". Actually a completely shot 46 year old Holyfield had put on an almost identical performance against Valuev in Valuev's previous outing, but had been denied by the judges.
Outside of that Valuev had been lucky with a few other decisions over the years, and Chagaev had beaten him clearly years earlier.

There's no shame in losing to Wlad, but losing to Wlad doesn't make him great either.