Haye v Dempsey

-Dempsey vs firpo
-Dempsey vs pattowatomie giant
-Dempsey gets knocked out a ring and knocks a guy down 2 more times in addition to the previous 7
-Dempsey beats the **** out of a guy 6'6 1/2 weighing in at 245. Dempsey has quick hands and good foot work for his time and move slips and covers well, Dempsey has an aggressiveness and grew up homeless and wants it more
-Haye is a lil ***** who was falling over at the end of 12 rounds, Dempsey fought all 12, 15, probably even 20 rounds earlier in his career,
-If Haye did to Klitschko what Dempsey did to Willard a guy who is taller and weighs more, then i'd favour HAYE A little more. Willard was not just tall he was also skilled enough to beat jack johnson, so he had endurance and skill. I don't think Klitschko could last 26 rounds and win against johnson, so I think Dempsey beat better competitors and he knocked out alot of guys in round 1.
-Dempsey fought in an era where the gloves looked awfully thin to me, and when Dempsey punches out 6 of hayes teeth, bust his eye socket and so on, I don't see Haye continuing, instead he'd be bitching and whining.
-Haye has never fought anyone as fast, hits as hard, is as tough, or of the same quality, that fighter simply doesn't existtoday, he'd have no chance

 

I was also excited for the Donaire/Nishioka fight...This is also why I try not to get excited anymore.

 

Haye may have "called out" Wlad as a token gesture immediately after the fight, but all the quotes I've seen from Haye ever since have Haye wanting to fight Vitali.

Dempsey may or may not have dodged Wills, I don't know (it's been discussed on ESB ad nauseaum and it's quite likely he did), but I think he showed his 'competitive spirit' many a time on his way up, fighting in a much tougher era than Haye would likely have survived in.

Anyway, Haye's 6 career HW fights in 4.5 years is hardly a resume to brag about; he's not exactly cleaned out the division himself, and hardly went out 'on his shield' against Wlad; at least Dempsey took a rematch with his conqueror Tunney, Haye put up such a poor show against Wlad there was very little demand for a rematch.

 

This is where we disagree, what makes Dempsey's era so tough from the opponents he actually faced? I think it's an era Haye would excell in. Mainly smaller men or very unskilled larger men. Which of Dempsey's opposition beats Haye, I think Haye beats the lot including Tunney. Now the era may have been hard from an economic stand point, in terms of talent of the boxers Dempsey fought it isn't great

If you're saying Haye only had '6 heavyweight fights', ie 200lbs + fights, he's actually had 7. Dempsey has had what 4 significant 200lb+ fights himself, Willard/Firpo/Fulton/Morris. Good wins but not great. The rest of Dempsey's opposition are crusers, which is very comparable to Haye fighting at cruser

You're complaining about Haye's HW resume, well most of his career was at cruser where he fought his way up winning the european title, beating ranked contender before facing the undisputed champion before unifying with a lesser belt and all of that is commendable.

His HW opposition isn't the best but his overall competition stands up to Dempsey's. Valuev was younger than Willard, Ruiz was a year older than Willard but more active. Actually let's compare overall competition as it stands to see who's fought harder opposition:

Wlad-Tunney
Valuev-Willard
Chisora-Firpo
Ruiz-Fulton
Mormeck-Gibbons
Audley-Morris
Barret-Miske
Fragomeni-Carpentier
Maccarinelli-Brennan
Gurov-Levinski

Haye fought on average bigger men, amongst those names there are 4 world champions, 3 European champions and a british champion. None of those fighters Haye beat are great but neither are any of the fighters Dempsey beat, the undersized Gibbons perhaps being the exception

As for Haye putting on a poor show against Wlad, I don't see the relevance. Dempsey didn't do any better against Tunney and Wlad is a much much better heavyweight than anyone Dempsey faced

 

Although I understand what your saying there's a big difference between Tunney and Wlad. I think Magna nailed it, Haye felt the power of Wlad and packed it in mentally, kinda like Tua against Lewis. I highly doubt if Dempsey felt this power he'd pack it in more likely make him more pissed but that would be his downfall. Dempsey was sometimes too aggressive for his own good and in this match up could spell doom, althought I wouldn't bet on that occuring hence why I picked Dempsey.

 

Dempsey would bludgeon him.

 

I think Dempsey is the most overrated from all ATGs, and also the one with the weakest resume.

 

At least he would still be in the fight, with a chance to win.

Whatever you are...outskilled or out muscled, if you just go into a shell to survive, you have lost for sure.

Whereas if you keep trying to the bitter end, you're in with some kind of a chance...as Dempsey proved in the rematch with Tunney.

Great fighters like Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Holmes etc never stop trying. It's a big part of what makes them great.


BTW, Dempsey is my pick here, too. Prime Dempsey is like a buzz saw.

 

Great trainers like Arcel rated Dempsey as one of the very best. He rated him right up there with Ali and Louis. Yes he was that great. Arcel watched all three of these fighters live. Who are any of us to say...no...Arcel and every other trainer who rated Dempsey so high was wrong?

 

Silly...Dempsey was a special once in a lifetime talent. Haye is a dime a dozen fighter in an era of dime a dozen fighters.

 

Brilliant stylistic analysis. I mean, how can you even argue with that?

 

Your comparing two fighters at opposite sides of the spectrum. There is no need for a stylistic analysis. One fighters is an all time great with unique once in a lifetime abilities. Haye is a nothing who will never be anything.