Haye won't be the saviour. That's just hype and wishful thinking. Haye was/is a good CW champ, but I don't believe he can go far in the division. He's simply not 'the real deal' like Holyfield was. Here's why: -Haye can barely take a good CW punch. How can he take a real HW punch? His chin is worse than Wladimirs, at least Wlad got knocked down by true HW punchers. Haye got knocked down by CWs - and btw Thompson and Mormeck are former LHWs and Mock is a blown up SMW. -Haye always had stamina issues. His stamina won't get any better by adding 20lbs of muscle. Haye has only fought two times more than 8 pro rounds in his career, I don't think he can keep up his speed after the middle rounds when he's gassed. Now some of you might argue that Haye won't get caught at HW because of his superior speed, but believe me as long as Haye thinks he can fight like Roy Jones he will get caught, cause he simply isn't skilled or fast enough to fight like Roy and get away with it. Others will argue that Haye is a natural HW and him not needing to make weight anymore will make him stronger in the ring, with a better chin and stamina. But a weak chin will always remain a weak chin and can't be substantially improved by bulking up. And Haye always looked ripped and in shape at CW, but never weak or dehydrated, so I don't think his stamina issues stem from cutting weight. IMO Haye can win a couple of fights in this weak division, he can beat guys like Bidenko or Barrett, and maybe/probably get a shot at a belt, but he will get KOed sooner or later, and again and again... Sorry brits, but he's not the next Lennox Lewis...
Thing is with Haye there has been alot of talk and as of yet one impressive performance at heavyweight blowing away Bonin. However that was such a easy win for Haye that it didnt tell us much because he faced not much coming back and it was over very quick. Its unfair to judge Haye against Holyfield Holyfield is a different human being fighting in a different era than Haye Haye might not have a good chin as Holyfield etc But everyone got their own strnegth and weakness Give Haye some credit though he is going to have a crack - even if he does fall flat on his face Haye brings ambition and attack to the heavyweights - excitment he is not a boring twat like Audley Harrison - he goes in there and just blasted Bonin out I see Hayes heavyweight career going like this He is either gonna knok his opponnet out convincingly or he is going to get knocked out convinclying its going to be exciting Haye is going to look to take people out I give Haye credit for this he is not a boring twat who paws with a jab for 12 rounds like Wlad wether Haye is big enough and strong enough to become heavyweight champion is debatable However wether he suceeds or fails in becoming heavyweight champion its going to be a entertaining adventure
Better stick to general forum, you'll get more of an ego stroke there. Other than Flint's posts about Enzo we actually we actually use things like reason and analysis in this forum. And just for the record a grand total of no one thinks he's the next Lennox Lewis. He's a very exciting prospect in a dreadful division, not an ATG H2H top 3 lock.
He might not be the saviour, but he will definitely add some excitement to the division, winning or losing.
congratulations on a truly insightful and well thought out argument. i'm just shocked that no-one considered this before. :nut
Good post. Allow me to retort Haye's chin isn't anything like as bad as it's made out to be. The only time I've seen any evidence of him having a weak chin is when he fought Lolenga Mock and got dropped heavily. I'll get back to that in a bit. Outside of that, Carl Thompson stopped him, but he stopped Haye on his feet. He knocked him down, but during that defeat Haye took numerous massive shots from one of the most vicious punchers in the history of the division. Thompson hit's just as hard as Ezra Sellers and Darell Wilson. Considering that it was his 10th fight, and who he was fighting, I refuse to take the Thompson loss as a sign that Haye is weak chinned. It could well be interpreted as a sign of his poor stamina, but I'll come back to that. The only other time Haye's been down was against Mormeck. If you saw the fight Haye got backed up into a corner by Mormeck, clipped with a decent shot, slipped on the mat and went down. He never looked hurt, and he got straight back up. Now there's no point dismissing Mormeck and Thompson as "former Light-Heavyweights" because although it may be factually correct, it creates a false impression. Both of those guys were proper Cruisers, 200lbs without an ounce of fat to spare. Evander Holyfield was a former light-heavyweight too, does that mean he can't punch? They both hit as hard as a lot of heavyweights do, and they're both world-class former champions. As for Lolenga Mock, yes he was a super-middleweight earlier in his career, but most of the time he's weighed in at between 170 and 190lbs. He's a natural light-heavyweight. And if you've ever seen him fight outside of the Haye fight, he's one of most freakishly strong light-heavyweights out there. Not much skills, not even a concussive puncher, but a granite chin and lots of strength. Haye got hurt by Mock via a punch to the temple, not the chin, and he got up off the canvas to win the fight by KO in the same round. It was his 7th pro fight. It is absolutely ridiculous to write him off based on what happened to him in his 7th pro fight. Lots of all-time-greats got knocked down early in their careers, such as Oscar De La Hoya and Muhammed Ali. Would you say they had bad chins? The other point you mentioned was stamina, and on that I broadly agree with you. Haye's stamina has always been a bit suspect, and that's what cost him his only defeat, not his chin. After the fight with Thompson he conciously tried to improve his stamina, and hasn't ever shown that weakness again. He proved his stamina against Fragomeni and Mormeck, two stocky pressure-fighters who throw a lot of shots. The way he boxed off the back foot and paced himself for the full 12 rounds in those fights is highly impressive. It showed much more maturity than the right-hand-happy KO merchant who we saw earlier in his career. With another 20lbs of muscle on, it may be a different story. Muscle's need oxygen, and if the lungs cant keep up with the muscles then they just stop working. They fill up with Lactic acid and become dead weight, kinda like Wlad Klitschko versus Lamon Brewster. I genuinely fear that at heavyweight he may struggle to last a full brusing 12 rounds. Luckily, there aren't many guys at Heavyweight who are that busy. Kiltschko certainly isn't, Toney is too old, Chambers is too fat and Peter is, well, ****. The most dangerous fight for Haye at heavyweight is Alexander Povetkin because Povetkin has a strong workrate and could take Haye into deep waters. His low left-hand worries me too, but it's his style, win or lose that just how he is. He's very good at drawing the lead with it, and then countering with superior speed using the right hand. Against the fat heavyweights this will be very effective. However, he does take too many shots because of it. Although he supposedly has a weak chin, he has taken unnecesary punishment due to it, and i dont think he'll be able to get away with at Heavyweight. All these guys like Tua, Peter, Briggs and Klitschko need is one shot, and your out. Their power is on another level to Thompson and Mormeck. I dont expect Haye to go undefeated as a Heavyweight, and I dont expect him to win the title, although he is capable of beating Wlad. Whatever happens I an certain he will be the most divisive and entertaining Heavyweight in the division.
Im not the biggest Haye fan in the world but this is a great post which actually tells things the way it is, not the way people want to believe:deal Brilliant post mate:good My feelings on the matter are win or lose in the heavyweight division Haye will bring excitement to a lackluster division.... Whether he KO's Wlad or whomever he faces or gets KO'd by them we will all be watching with anticipation and excitement to see what happens rather than fighting sleep and boredom that has been induced watching the heavyweight division the last few years:dead..... Just my two pence worth
It will just be nice for Britain to have a genuine threat to the top 10 heavy weight contenders again.
The one thing Haye has already achieved is he has got everyone interested in the marquee division again. That at least is a good thing.
let it go gawd guys just wait till he fights then comment i think this subject of haye has been exhausted
Unless you're Larry Holmes or Ali, any of these big lumps who can hit, land one on the chin you're gone. He took some big shots off Thompson and some right in the mush off Mormeck but has only real been chicken dancing off temple shots, like lots of other decent fighters (Mickey Ward was all over the parish in Gatti Ward II, different weight, same principal). If a hard jab shakes him to the floor like Khan was in that massacre a fortnight ago, then we worry about his chin.