he reality about sonny liston vs the imaginary big bad monster

Foreman didn't knock him down either.

Chuck Wepner fought both of them. He holds a lot of credibility.

 

Are we having a debate about what Sonny Liston weighed in what may or may not have been his 20s?

This is what it's all about. Keep 'em comin'.

 

His prime extended right up to about the time he won the title from Patterson or slightly before, regardless of what one thinks about his age, which incidentally has never been proven.

 

He was 212 in 1955 when he fought Johnny Grey and he was around 212 in 1962 when he won the heavyweight championship of the world ( his best performance. ) Not seeing your point here.. And how would this argument about being at your best weight in your 20's pertain to say, Bernard Hopkins?

 

Fine post.

 

Someone's getting schooled. Hopefully some of it sinks in.

 

In 1960 ( which is TWO years prior to 1962 in case you can't figure it out ) he weighed 212 on exactly FOUR occasions. Some of his fights that year featured some of his best opponents AND performances and he looked sharp.

Because he had filled out to a much stronger specimen which aided him in the type of style he utilized while also being more polished in skill by that point and putting forth some of the best performances of his career and against the best opponents... A combination of these things are keys when evaluating prime.

yes I'm curious as to how this little fly will stir up the ointment of your brilliant school of thought.

He was a middleweight from 1990-2005, spanning from age 25-40... So when was his prime weight ? In his debut bout against Clinton Mitchell where he lost because he admitted to training by eating fast food and showed up at 177???

BTW, age, conditioning, and primes are not the same for everyone. Different men reach their physical peak at different times in their lives, and a lot of it also has to do with genetics along with other factors like lifestyle and environment. I don't know how you can make this broad blanket statement and apply it to everyone, using an example of a fighter who's age no one even knows.

 

Why would it be a mismatch ? Machen was a top five rated heavyweight ,did Liston have to ko everyone in a couple of rounds? If those are you're requirements you are implicitly saying he was a monster! Machen had lost just 2 fights to Folley and Johannson.

 

Take it easy there. John Thomas has been here many years, is well liked and has debated many complicated points that you couldn't begin to wrap your head around... Show a little respect.

Your numbers don't reflect anything. All it shows is a man who weighed LESS in his prospect days than he did in his world class ones, which is typical of most fighters... Doesn't mean anything in respect to being at one's best.

 

As I said I'll go for 212lbs for Sonny ,he was at it or as near as makes no difference ,several times in big wins. Trying to gauge his prime is pretty difficult ,as no one really knows his age, and any way fighters age differently, hard fights ,mileage on the clock, lifestyles etc ,they aren't robots.