he reality about sonny liston vs the imaginary big bad monster

There's plenty of proof, all top level opponents stated Shavers hit harder than Foreman, it doesn't get any better than that. Not a single one opted for Foreman. It's really not rocket science.

How the hell would Ali know if Tyson hit harder than Shavers? He didn't fight Tyson!! Jesus H. Never mind he was struggling quite a bit by the time Tyson was about.

How the hell would Tyson know if Foreman hit harder than himself?? Did he take punches from either, let alone both? This gets sillier by the minute.

Now, name these rivals you talk about and where can i find their testimonies??

As clearly shown your attempt to discredit the numerous validations that Shavers hit harder than Foreman by attemting to dredge up statements from people about fighters they have not even fought is ridiculous.

lmgfao@ a punching power machine. One of the silliest things i have ever read.

Whoopi doo. Foreman is a lot better fighter.

Shavers stopped Young and Foreman got schooled by him :good

I bet he did.

Only important in your mind in repeated efforts to discredit Shavers power. One can only make up so many excuses.

Of course you do, it ruins your Foreman fantasy.

Don't think for a second i can't see through you desperate efforts to cirumvent the testimonies of Ali, Lyle, Norton, Young and co by saying you believe 90's Foreman was a harder hitter than peak Foreman. Not that silly sorry.

 

Hang on.. YOU'RE the one going around calling people names when they don't agree with your nonsense. Now you're getting schooled so you turn it around and make it look like a "personal" agenda on someone's behalf. Grow up..

 

This is a public chat forum where people can respond to whoever or whatever they want and whenever they choose to do so.. If you don't like that structure, then maybe you should try something else.

 

hes bigger h2h than in ranks, hes not an atg.

 

Holy had to lift weights to get up to 209; Liston weighed that naturally. In fact, Liston probably had to cut weight.

 

I think the simple answer to this is that hitting hard can only get you so far. Foreman was a far better boxer than Shavers, much better conditioned and a better puncher overall.

But, I mean, it's true that many people including Ali said that Shavers was the hardest hitter. Foreman was a better hitter.

 

punching

lets say the arc of a punch has the most knockout potential at the half way point. it might not be but lets say so. no matter how much goes behind a punch, how much force it has the greatest impact will always be acheived only at one point of that arc. obviously to create a knockout the trick is to get the target right into that precise point of the arc.

the best boxers have the knack of creating the exact positioning to acheive this conection with a greater number of their punches than average fighters. so the effort behind much of their blows dosnt actually need to be that great because they are getting a greater ratio of perfect conections anyway.

a really extraordinary fighter can let go on a punch before his opponent has even done whatever it is he needs to do to put his chin right at the point of that arc of the punch that does the most damage.

They anticipate this.

if it is exact, the unsuspecting velocity of double impact, two objects meeting from two directions, will create a far greater impact with very little effort from the puncher.

now, some fighters are heavy handed. so much so that perhaps less of a perfect punch is required to inflict damage but the point is he will need more effort and force to do this. he may very well hit a bag harder but without the timing of that perfect arc connection he can be far less of a knockout puncher even though, technically he has the heavier hands.

Hard punching is more about higher percentage of quality blows landing than sheer force.

 

This is a good description of how a technical fighter scores a clean KO.

But this is nothing like Foreman, Shavers, and guys like Rocky. Those guys can punch through your guard and do serious damage. These are the guys who don't look to make clean contact with the heavybag, as much as they try to plow through one.

In essence, they don't look for clean openings, just any opening.

 

Yes I agree. Those are the guys I would say have the heavy hands. Without needing full arc of the punch.

But perception of punch makes a lot of difference to impact.

Foreman and Rocky had incredible accuracy, but a guy like say Frank Bruno or Cleveland Williams who potentially hit as hard never could produce this at the higher level.

Being able to achieve the impact at the best point in the arc therefore is still a crucial factor going up the levels of class.

Shavers did catch great fighters with his power, though perhaps not full arc since Holmes survived.

 

Yes, and I said he was right. Foreman, Rocky and bald Ernie hurt what ever they hit.

The point I was making is "hitting hard" or deciding whom hits "harder" is a complicated thing because it depends on connection with regard to the opponents anticipation.. different levels of anticipation is aparant the further you go up the levels AND THIS IS NEVER MENTIONED in any discussion on punch power. Anticipation levels totally eradicates power.

Connection on a bag is one thing. Connection on a fighter is another and connection on a world championship us another altogether.

Muhammad Ali knocked out two guys nobody else could knock out. Foreman and Bonnevena. Punching power and the ability to knock somebody out is two different things.