he reality about sonny liston vs the imaginary big bad monster

Sonny looked the part. Esp during that era, like Tyson Sonny had that" I'm GOING TO KILL YOU,AND AFTER THAT KILL YOUR FAMILY JUST BECAUSE".Look to him. Then factor in his alleged mob connections . It's easy to understand why he caused so much fear during his time. I'd say this, it can be argued where he falls on the A.T.G list. But in my opinion of the (26) heavyweights mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Liston would beat all but Foreman, Holmes,Lewis, maybe Tyson, Frazier or Holyfeild. All the others I think he defeats, a few he'd destroy. And if were going to make an argument about his competition. Got to argue about Marciano's comp to. And he conveniently retired before he had to face Liston..... Just saying.

 

Rocky did not retire to avoid Liston. Please examine the time line.

 

Marciano retired in 55, Liston turned pro in 53, you relieve believe Marciano didn't at least hear about Liston?

 

Nobody knew Liston in 1955. He had not yet faced a known heavyweight. There was so many other heavyweights just as unknown.

 

Norton didn't fight him though and of course didn't say it, Wepner fought them both and did. Its not F&D that you have to agree with Chuck, only he knows who hit him harder, its that your putting your unknowing opinion ahead of his factual experience and thinking it has more validity. To most boxing observers it doesn't.

 

Both Liston and Foreman were devestating all time punches. Who hit harder is a mute point. Certainly Liston was the sharper puncher.

Liston was not on anyone's radar by 1955. Any thought Rocky retired because of Liston is well beyond ridiculous.

 

F & D as far as my memory allows most Heavies were NOT considered to be in their primes in their 20's. Early 30's is nearer the mark.

 

I remember an old Ring article on this from the '70's, it put 28 historically as the zeneth age for many of the top all time heavy's.

 

He's wrong F&D? About just what? He didn't say you had to believe who hit him the hardest, he would know and you'd have zero idea. Archie Moore in a like manner told how Durelle, a light heavy contender with heavy hands, hit him clearly harder then Marciano and Patterson though flattened twice in one round by Sonny said Johanson hit harder. Those F&D are the facts, they took the punches and they have related what they were. Overall like the rest of us who have only data to make guesses with come up with our own conclusions, but have a little respect for the guys who actually did the fighting. Arm chair boxing has tons of guys like you already.

 

I am not talking about physical prime's. I mean fighting prime, just look what Ali, Foreman, and Holyfield achieved when aged 30+. Then you go on to Lewis, the K2 brothers.

 

So are you claiming that none of these guys,

Al Weill
Charley Goldman, Al Columbo
Whitey Bimstein, Freddie Brown, Chickie Ferrera

knew any of these guys

Jack Nilon, Joe (Pep) Barone, Eddie Polino, George Katz, Frank Willie Reddish, **** Sadler, Johnny Tocco
Joe Polino, Milt Bailey

and even if they did, none thought to mention to the other about an up and coming Heavyweight called Liston?

 

There was a journeymen heavyweight in the 60s named George Johnson AKA "S**** Iron" He took a great punch and could give anyone rounds of good work. The classic stepping stone type of fighter not a contender but not a bum either.

S**** Iron fought George Foreman, Joe Frazier and Sonny Liston among others. Only one of those guys stopped him though.

Sonny Liston.

Just putting that out there. Not saying it means he hits harder than those guys because of that but I think it shows Liston was pretty far from a myth.

 

Foreman said he had the best chin of anyone he ever fought. Hit him so hard and so often he hurt his hands.