Head 2 Head, how good was Roy Jones Jr?

This is closest to how I would summarize his career.

@ 160 he was still a work in progress IMO - I think he only reached his prime in his final fight @ the weight, vs. Tate.

168, he was a h2h beast. But @175, he lost some of that aura & benefited greatly from an era that was almost completely devoid of distinguished talent. I think he showed vulnerabilities @ this weight that other great LHWs would be capable of capitalizing on.

 

Agreed, I also think a big part of how he was so good at setting traps was that you had to focus on the physical aspects of him. When every lead hook is potentially a knockout, and there's potential four more coming after the first one; you really don't notice the traps he's setting. I do think a lot of it is his brain, too. Yknow how the best defensive guys have the 'eyes'? I think the same applies to offence and Jones' were awesome.

At 160, I really struggle to see guys like Hagler and Monzon actually able to deal with him. Not saying they couldn't, he's just so alien compared to their regular opponents that it's hard to get an idea of the fights. Naturally, those two should start as favourites, but really Hagler struggled to get the right gameplan a bit against those super high ring IQs he fights and Monzon is much slower than Jones. I could see them both losing. I'd honestly give Walker, and LaMotta, and maybe Fullmer or Tiger a better chance at 160 than Monzon, outside of setting up a KO.

So I agree, the awful match-up for Jones are those dipping low and coming up with punches style of pressure fighters. Guys who would just plant their fod on his chest and start punching. In the real world, he did have issues with B-Hop when he did this; and despite the early KO Merqui Sosa gave him issues too. As well as obviously Griffith as you mentioned. The problem for guys like that is that Jones hit so hard that the strategy wasn't viable for most pressure fighters; however that begins to change as he goes up in weight or against guys like Hagler and LaMotta. I also tend to think that both Foster and Spinks are absolutely nightmares for Roy at 175.

How do you think a 168 Jones does against LHW greats? Any different to the 175 Jones or does the weight of Jones matter less than the weight of opponents in your opinion? Any thoughts on fights with Moore or Charles?

 

Honestly the guy to beat Jones showed up after a vampiric weight cut and didn’t earn a rematch.

 

Also, I'd probably have Roy on my Mount Rushmore of the most unbeatable fighters ever, with Robinson, Duran and Leonard. The only two I'm truly sure at on there though are Duran and Robinson.

 

I don't think any Toney beats Jones. Awful style match-up.

 

I disagree, I think the key there is that ol James could punch with Roy (simultaneously) like he did with McCallum he was too clever to be fooled by all that noise Roy made he’d carve him up inside too but that’s an oversimplification because I don’t want to have a full discussion Lol.

 

I agree that Roid is a bad style match up for Monzon. His speed + in and out movement would be horrendous for a man who backs up in straight lines imo. Like you said, Hagler could also psych himself out mentally against certain 'cute' opponents. I just think if he was in 'destruct and destroy' mode that Roid would not be able to avoid him forever, especially over a 15 rounder. I think people forget that Hagler at his best also had fast feet and would be able to catch up. Ultimately, I struggle to match Roid against any higher level 160s simply due to him being so unproven at that level.

Roid's problem was that for an ATG he had an incredibly weak jab - possibly the worst jab ever in comparison to his actual level of ability and accomplishment. Any fighter (at 'great' level) that can get in the position to press him and work their jab would absolutely win every jab exchange imo and drive him onto the ropes, where Roid was far more ordinary. Roid requires being in the centre of the ring to work his magic, and some great fighters simply would not let him do that imo.

I'm not overly familiar on Jones' in ring weights, but I would've thought 168 Jones cut at least a little. I don't think there would be a difference in the ring.

They both spark him imo. Moore / Charles landing Griffin-esque left hooks over and over = lights out.

 

I was around Roy Jr here and there over the years but only ever got to see him fight in person once, vs. Thulani “Sugar Boy” Malinga, who had given several notable guys fits.

Watching Roy in person was like watching a difference species. He should have been tested for the X gene.

Never seen anything like him. Doubt I ever will.

 

Very good.

Since Archie Moore, RJJ, Spinks, Moorer and Toney are the only 175ers to win a HW belt. Spinks and Moorer were 6' 2. RJJ shutout Toney at 168.

At MW RJJ beat Hopkins in his physical prime and Hopkins went on to dominate MW for a full decade and was the best LHW for most of the decade after that. The LHW era after RJJ was better than RJJs but one of his victims was its best fighter.

As LHW champ RJJ lost 4 rounds before fighting Tarver. Between Hopkins I and Tarver I RJJ probably lost less than 10 rounds at LHW and SMW. Out of nearly 200. Against an amazing SOS.

The era at LHW RJJ reigned over wasn't as good as the 2005-2015 period but it was probably the best LHW era in 40-50 years. It was better than Fosters, Spinks or Hills era. Better than the era thats wrapping up now.

 

He barely lost a round in 10 years.

 

Malinga should've had 2 wins over Benn he was robbed in their 1st fight.

Beat Reid at age 40.

Went distance with Eubank aswell.

Malinga isn't a great fighter but he was a good very durable fighter and RJJ made him look like a scrub and that's why I rate RJJ so highly he made alot of good fighters look very bad.

 

That left hook thrown inside the arc of Malinga’s right was ridiculous, then he managed to land another and throw an uppercut (that missed because Sugar Boy was falling) in the blink of an eye … just wow. Superhero stuff.