Head to Head GOAT

I think Ruben Olivares gets excused far too often.

Bottom line, I dont see him having the chin to handle Jofre or Zarate.

I think Olivares-Zarate would very much mirror Olivares-Arguello, with Ruben doing well and building a lead, but Zarate, like Arguello, gradually breaking him down.

 

I agree. You won’t find many bigger fans than me but you’re right. A total hammering in his mid 20’s gets tossed out and even a rematch above weight and subsequent loss is ignored too. I also agree, wider puncher (than Jofre) and far less punch resistance = rough night. It’s precisely why I’d pick Zarate too. I’m sure they’d be great, great fights.

 

Before you responded I added on a part about Zarate.

I think Olivares-Zarate would resemble Olivares-Arguello.

 

Say it with me @Xplosive ....
Usyk lol

 

Say it with me... Holy would beat Usyk within an inch of his life.

Incredibly overrated fighter.

 

You mentioned two CWs. Holy and Usyk are the top dogs. Holy mopped the floor with the division (in its infancy) and obviously beats Usyk h2h. Usyk fought better competition though.

 

I do not think that this is true.
By measurements or weight Rocky was not very big.
Sure he boiled down to 187/188 in his prime-& was often at least a it lighter-but that still did not leave him with less fat than most non HW division participants.
And given many what folks have done for decades with day before weigh ins, he could make 175 without much problem.
That is well under the 10% that many lose & regain-some more.

The difference between him & the average modern LHW is he is a little shorter with on avergae more lower body mass.
His upper body was not at all big for a modern LHW.
His upper body & bone structure was really not on par with Liston's.

None of this is a criticism, just observation.
Look at his upper body measurements, particularly his chest/back, they are small for a HW.

 

On your HW you spelled ALI wrong. Wasn't sure you saw that

 

I remember that photo. He looked similar in size to Sonny only because Liston was looking down at him, and Marciano had packed on the pounds.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/snCXQmt_hwQ/maxresdefault.jpg They were NOT the same size.

 

Yes, & though both of their heights were exaggerated, if we went through especially the other upper body measurements, the large discrepency in size would be apparent.
It was most prominent in wingspan. But also just look at their upper body in fights, & especially width of shoulders.

 

Nice riposte, and agree with you on your salient point, for me nobody beats Duran at LW, all your other rankings are excellent. keep well.

 

This is about Tyson vs Holyfield level size gap but even bigger.

 

HW: Lewis
CW: Holyfield
LHW: Spinks
SMW: Calzaghe/Jones
MW: Same day weigh in era Jones/Toney before day weigh in era Hagler
SWW: Hearns
WW: Robinson
SLW: Mayweather
LW: Mayweather
SFW: Mayweather
FW: Pacquaio
SBW: Pacquaio
BW: Donaire
Super Flyweight: Galaxy
Fly Weight: Roman Gonzalez
Light Flyweight: Jorge Arce/Ricardo Lopez
MW: Ricardo Lopez

 

I put that down to him being humble. If he was in the shape he was Rose, I don't think he loses to Herrera, and I'm sure if the case was where he fought Herrera instead of Rose for the title, he wouldn't be saying what he said either. I mean, sure, Herrera could beat him, but certainly wouldn't be putting any money on him to do it.

I often see Zarate touted to beat him, and I've never agreed. Al Brown is a good shout, his style could be quite troublesome for him, but I think if Newsboy Brown was able to get inside and rough Brown up, so is Olivares.

 

It is worth noting that Rose had a terrible weight cut and could barely make the weight by the time he met Olivares. I do tend to see people that excuse Olivares’s losses or throw them out, don’t use the same consistency with Rose for example or Chacon at 126.

Honestly, in those days of same-day weigh-in’s especially at bantam those cuts were probably the worst of all weight classes. Jofre had hell for years even before Harada, Harada then couldn’t make it even before the Rose fight and then it happened to Rose and then Olivares. Unfortunately it was hard to move up because why give up a lucrative belt to be a contender for another couple of years in the next division up.