Head to head, Is Luis Ortiz the best southpaw heavyweight of all time?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Mistadobalina, Jun 21, 2022.

  1. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 4, 2005
    Joyce's 3 stoppages as an amateur were very different to Wilder's stoppages.

    Joyce first stoppage was to Joshua ending in the ref stopping the fight and he had a TKO loss to Beguerni in a fight where he took two standing 8 counts meaning he didn't even go down. Suffice to say Joyce's, poor defence combined with amateur boxing's tendency to stop fights if a fighter takes too many clean shots led to these two stoppages but they were nothing like Wilder's stoppages.

    The one time we know Joyce was definitely dropped was against Kuzmin where he took a monster shot that literally knocked him on his ass and he got up at 4 and didn't even look remotely hurt. Suffice to say in Joyce's 3 stoppage losses he's probably never looked genuinely hurt unlike Wilder.
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  2. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

    Jun 6, 2022
    Kuzmin had Joyce down twice iirc. Joyce's facial expression never changes but his legs weren't under him.
  3. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 4, 2005
    He was only down once. But at the start of the round Joyce eats a 3 flush hooks, left hook, right hook, left hook in rapid succession and it knocks him side ways resulting in a standing 8 count. The one knock down he's squared up and so the force of the punch knocks him back onto to his heels and he goes down. So it was more a balance issue combined with poor defence. He took 4 monster shots and never really looked hurt, legs never dipped and his facial expression shows nothing like he hadn't even been hit.
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  4. kiwi_boxer

    kiwi_boxer #prayforshadow Full Member

    Aug 25, 2013

    I knew you'd pivot and head that route.

    • Wilder was dropped by Harold Sconiers
    • Wilder was rocked hard by Eric ****ing Molina

    • Wilder was close to being stopped by geriatric Ortiz and was out on his feet (needed a bonus 10 seconds at the start of the round to gather his senses)

    • Was wobbled by Haye in sparring with 16oz gloves and headgear
    • Was hurt from a Szpilka jab
    Not to mention his glass legs:
    • Deontay "My 40lb suit was too heavy, that's why I lost" Wilder

    Dannymita likes this.
  5. DanielDimov

    DanielDimov Jabbing all night Full Member

    Feb 2, 2015
    Simply no, because Usyk is a southpaw
  6. Mr Icaman

    Mr Icaman 32-0 WBC Champ, Ring + Lineal HW Champ Full Member

    Aug 31, 2015
    Yer but this was 65yo Ortiz. The OP is talking 50-60 prime Ortiz who put on a clinic against Wilder*

    Before he got KO'd
    Ducklerr likes this.
  7. turbotime

    turbotime Future Hall Of Famer Full Member

    May 4, 2012
    Wilder sucks so none of this proves anything.
    BubblesUK likes this.
  8. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am juggernaut, I am very juggernaut Full Member

    Sep 5, 2016

    Just as Brighton said. Where's he put down twice here? How are his legs not under him when he gets up?

    Compare to Wilder vs Romanov, Wilder is clearly very hurt, legs dipping etc. Very different, and more emphatic, stoppage. And his shakiness progressed throughout his pro career. Joyce has looked solid as a rock.

    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  9. Presenting-Fight-Film

    Presenting-Fight-Film Active Member Full Member

    Apr 18, 2022
    Everybody puts on a clinic on beyonce wilder, nothing impressive about it.
  10. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

    Jun 6, 2022
    I just watched it again. Joyce didn't look hurt but he got stagged by the initial flurry and then put on his backside in quick succession. If you get taken out in 34 seconds by Kuzmin, TKO'd in 1 by some unknown Algerian and stopped in 1 by AJ then there's grounds for questioning your punch resistance, especially as Joyce was far more experienced and physically mature than Wilder when he got stopped the 2nd and 3rd times.

    The question was never whether Wilder had a better chin than Joyce anyway. I raised Joyce to dispute the validity of writing off a fighter's chin based (in this case) on one early amateur stoppage. Some fool was trying to make an equivalence between that and quitting dropped 4 times and quitting against Ruiz as an established champion.
  11. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

    Jun 6, 2022
    AJ was dropped by Whyte and stopped by Nistor in the amateurs. Wilder was dropped once as a pro in 43 fights prior to Fury 2, all the rest is fluff.

    Ruiz is a light puncher and a nonentity with a best win over a washed up Liakhovich by 10 round decision in a competitive fight, yet he dropped AJ 4 times and made him QUIT, as much as you try to ignore that.

    Parker is a joke of a fighter with no heart who lost to Whyte and will probably be fighting Jermaine Franklin in September.
  12. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Prayed for Shadow,Waste of time,Still a nincompoop Full Member

    Mar 17, 2018
  13. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Addict Full Member

    Oct 29, 2012
    Luis beat the crap out of a young Methusalah back in the day :lol:
  14. fencik45

    fencik45 Active Member Full Member

    Jun 6, 2022
    Romanov should be Wilder's come back opponent.
  15. kiwi_boxer

    kiwi_boxer #prayforshadow Full Member

    Aug 25, 2013
    “All the rest is fluff” - to you, of course. I notice you’re happy to pivot back to amateur records to spin the narrative against Joshua. Cute. Remember when Wilder was dropped by Nichols? Hahaha

    Riddle me this:

    - Sconiers/Spilzka/Molina are all “light punchers” as you like to put it. More so than Ruiz, by quite a margin.

    - Who complained that his ring walk suit tired his body to exhaustion before the first Fury fight?

    - Who was beaten half to death by “the softest punching heavyweight in history” (Wilders words).

    - Who needed 3 fights to try and beat that same “feather fisted” heavyweight, only to be exposed to the point he semi retired?


    Also, NEET you never confirmed whether you changed your Reddit name too. It was entertaining to see you plead for ways to obtain the unemployment benefit as you were sick of your mum asking you to get a job.

    It's Ovah likes this.