Hearns v Roy Jones at either 160, 168 or 175 eras for eras who wins?

James is a great fighter? He is hall of fame, I am not sure he is a great. By that term. He is borderline.

 

I agree totally.. Ray was practically retired the whole decade and didn't have many tough fights. If anything he took for granted that he could beat anyone, yet he fought his old buddies which I don't blame him Hearns and Duran and didn't go near Michael Nunn, who at the time was the top middleweight. I remember when Ray got the fighter of the decade award, and aside from beating all the greats, I felt how could he get it for being so inactive.

 

And James Toney sparked Nunn out coming in as a 20-1 underdog. Then tore up Iran Barkley after he beat Hearns twice. Hell I'd favor Toney over Hearns H2H at 160 and I suspect Emmanuel Steward would as well. Toney sparred with everyone at the Kronk but Steward never let him have a crack at Hearns or that's just the rumor anyway. His sparring with G-man, who most sane people would favor over Hearns was remarkably one sided. Toney vs Duran would be one of the greatest dream matches at 160 and I'd lean ever so slightly Toney in that match-up. James Toney was a GREAT fighter. Just not all together consistent. Beating James Toney from that time is a better than any win on Hearns resume IMO.

 

James did well against Nunn, but for some reason Nunn declined quickly I am not sure why the reason.. Toney exploited Nunn's habit of leaning against the ropes and followed up with more punches after that. But, I think the Nunn of 1988 would stay more in ring center like the earlier part of the fight and outbox James. I would not pick Toney over Hearns at 160, not after Tiberi and the fact is Nunn was landing better punches against Toney early on with speed in the center of the ring. Hearns sparred McClelland also. It is on youtube probably. They sparred in Atlantic City when Hearns was getting ready for Olajide. Not much to it.. Beating Toney by Jones was better than any win on Hearns record? Are you serious?

 

Agreed. Jones beat Toney at 168 and then who? He was there for 2 years … Hearns and Jones went about their careers completely different imo

 

yes totally different. I agree totally. The Toney fight seemed to be where he thought, now I can relax. I had my good win and I can coast. Hearns was I think a little more fearless than Jones early on at least, Jones later after he was stopped seemed to pick tougher fights, which surprised me. He seemed to take more chances later on as though he knew his legacy was set, so he can take chances and perhaps add to the legacy in wins which might be more unexpected. But he was not a guy who loved to trade punches and he never seemed to great at it once his chin was tested. Hearns on the other hand for being said to have a weak chin, took punches on the chin and still stayed in great fights. I thought Jones had a great career, but in his prime he was a very safety first career. Hearns sort of showed his good and bad qualities more because the other greats exposed them. I don't know if Jones had a Leonard or Hagler level guy to fight. I think Hopkins was early on and not yet that top fighter, and Toney? He is a great/borderline hall of famer, but he was no Leonard or Hagler or Duran level guy.

 

He dominated solid though unspectacular competition. Fought 6 guys and stopped them all. Went up to 175 and unified. Beat a questionable heavyweight champion handily.

 

On James best night he absolutely is a Leonard/Hagler/Duran level fighter. I think the James Toney who fought Barkley at 168 would destroy almost any pressure fighter. Duran is one of favorite fighters, went life and death with Barkley, but at 160 is just too small to be a factor against the true ATG's of the division. He had guts and power and gallons of skill. But at 160 you can't really put him in that stratosphere.

Hagler would be another close fight. The fact is that one does not simply knockout James Toney. Hagler would go the distance with James but I suspect it would have the same feeling as Canelo vs GGG. It would probably be such a close fight that both fan bases would bicker about it for years. James on the back foot countering, Hagler pressing and getting his shots in. Toney doing the cleaner work but Hagler controlling the ring.

Sugar Ray would be a tough fight for Toney. Toney did not like spoilers or runners for the same reason Duran and Joe Louis didn't. The like to fight in the pocket, at the cost of having somewhat heavy feet. I think I'd favor SRL to hit and run his way to a decision. Fast feet and hands with no qualms about playing tag for 45 minutes.

Perhaps Roy did coast after the Toney win, but dude took out the number 3 p4p fighter in a landslide. Name a better Hearns win above 160. Hill might be the only one even close. Roy nuked Hill with the right to the body in 4.

 

This gets bandied about a bit and even did at the time but i see it as a distinct misrepresentation of Hearns.

Never mind Ceuvas, Hearns put on a clinic against Benitez and monstered Duran. These two were right in the mix of "the best of his era". Benitez was favored over Hearns and Duran was coming off two extremely good showings yet was decimated. So while Hearns lost to Hagler and Leonard he also obliterated Duran and Cuevas and outboxed the slick Benitez. He did pretty well.

 

Jones was praying mantis flying across the ring, he could literally jump past Hearns hip jab - and shake n take him.

 

What do all these guys have in common? All 3 were giving up 6+ inches of reach, and all 3 of these fights took place BELOW 160lbs. Which is not the version of Hearns we are talking about.

 

Well you did say that Jones beating Toney is better than anything Hearns had on his resume .. Not sure if you are referring to only 160 and up here?

 

Ya I know. We all know that it wasn't his natural weight AS it wasn't for Hearns either , so your point is mute.. And that is just tough sh*t for Ray, now isn't it. Be careful what you ask for is the lesson here for Ray. It worked for Hagler, but not Hearns.