Hearns vs Toney

no.. number one he was rather inexperienced, but number 2 he was boxing more after being hurt. Slowly he was hitting Ray easily and standing his ground more and even coming forward again. And Ray countered him.

 

I don't think those guys you named are better boxers, so that's the first problem. Second, you keep forgetting Toney's mouth. He would bait him into a war hook line and sinker. It would be lights out imo

 

This is overrating James a little. But it is opinions. Benitez will always be greater than Toney. Hill to me was greater. He did more with his talent than Toney ever did. 24 title defenses. Hearns went for knockouts whether guys baited him or not, and in other fights he didn't.. It would be up to Tommy to use his jab. I think if he does, he outboxes James.

 

James at 175 was a story of wasted opportunity for me. Oddly enough, I think Toney's got a better chance at 168 than 175.

It's easy enough to forget he couldn't capture a title at LHW that him not beating a top 10 guy there at all gets glossed over entirely. I think the Hearns of the Hill fight UD's him.

 

I'll give you SRL had the experience on him, Hearns didn't know how to clinch when hurt among other things but Leonard won the fight fair and square and was always going to at the end. Tommy run out of gas as much as anything lets be honest. He was never going to be dancing around non stop jabbing at this stage of the fight.

 

yes but I do believe the Hearns who beat Benitez outboxes Ray. He was more experienced and polished at that point. Ray would have never wanted to fight the 154 pound Hearns who was more solid defensively and experienced. The 154 pound Hearns never lost. It was a great weight for him.

 

I would agree Hearns gets past SRL more times than not at 154. They would always have extremely close fights.

I hope you agree with my 147 assessment tho. Hearns was always my favorite fighter and if i could give him a bit of leeway i would but he simply wasn't good enough in their first fight.

 

Most people think he beat Griffin. Duran Williams was also ranked in the lower TOP 10 at the time.

 

Well, Tommy didn't know a few things he learned like slowing down a fight with holding and using defense, like he did in 1989.. When both guys were past their prime. But I agree Hearns had trouble and it would have been hard. A 12 round fight I think Hearns would have won, but sure Ray would have tried to have that stopped also earlier. Emanuel always said Hearns lost his stamina and it did not have to do with Ray coming on or Angelo saying your blowing it, but either way Ray won when it mattered. Tommy fighting all his fights at 154 would have been good, but the Hagler fight was iconic and had to happen.

 

Fair. I think Hearns victory (i'm calling it such) in the second fight is a bit underrated.

6 months later in his next fight Leonard all but shut out a Duran who was coming off a great win over Barkley who had just stopped Tommy. 2 years later Tommy comprehensively outboxed Virgil Hill who was quite highly regarded at that point and a sizable fave.

SRL and Hearns were absolutely still very relevant when they fought even if they were well past peak. I'm sure i am preaching to the choir here.

 

no I hear you. They were relevant, but not the top guys like Nunn or Chavez in 1989, which is why Hearns beating Hill was rather unpredicatable 2 years later, the same year Ray lost to convincingly to Norris. Hearns said later he thought his style for Hill was all wrong for Virgil. He said with my jab all I needed was the jab. He even said it was not one of his best fights, but all he really needed was the jab to beat Virgil. Which surprised me he didn't say it was a great performance of his. I think the one thing Hearns in 1991 had over Ray in being a relevant fighter was fighting all the years and gaining experience in years Ray was doing HBO, which is why Hearns in my mind did well vs. Ray in 1989. Tommy still was active and had a lot of experience in 1989. In 1981 Ray had more experience, but in 1989 Hearns did.

 

Yeah but cement-foot Toney wouldn't be able to do the same. If Hearns fights a disciplined fight behind his jab he wins it by a wide UD. But he probably wouldn't.

 

It's an interesting match. Hearns is a lot different proposition to Nunn in many ways.

 

Tommy would have to move and avoid being hit for 12 rounds and that ain't happening.

As soon as Lights Out lands clean it would be the beginning of the end for The Motor City Cobra although it would happen gradually as the fight went on, each clean shot Toney lands would sap just a little of Hearns' energy reducing his movement making it easier and easier for James to close the distance and connect.

Toney TKO9

 

If Duran Williams ever achieved a top 10 Ring rating, the division was in a much more dire state than I thought. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but when it comes to best wins, the man didn't have a "best" win lol.

Don't recall exactly how I scored them, but I do think Toney went 1-1 vs Griffin and was a bit unfortunate to go winless vs him. That's juxtaposed against his 160 campaign where I thought every break went his way to stay unbeaten (Johnson and Tiberi I scored against him. McCallum could've went either way IMO).

Hearns was a one hit wonder at 175 based off the Hill fight, but he had the better win and the better losses between he and Toney there. Neither were great LHW's.