Heavyweight Champions + Notable contenders resume against current top ten opposition

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Apr 28, 2011.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Right now this second, who is the best opponent Wlad could beat for the standing of his legacy?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 10, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 10, 2015
    #46
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    lufcrazy, Jul 16, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 16, 2022
    #47
    cross_trainer likes this.
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    The link may have failed Luf?
     
    JohnThomas1, Jul 16, 2022
    JohnThomas1, Jul 16, 2022
    #48
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    This is the thread
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 16, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 16, 2022
    #49
    cross_trainer and JohnThomas1 like this.
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Gawd how bad was i!!! Somehow thought it was the other i bumped :lol:

    Top work mate!

    @cross_trainer here's your answer.
     
    JohnThomas1, Jul 16, 2022
    JohnThomas1, Jul 16, 2022
    #50
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  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Lots of threads have similar titles lol
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 16, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 16, 2022
    #51
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  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    True!!!!
     
    JohnThomas1, Jul 16, 2022
    JohnThomas1, Jul 16, 2022
    #52
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wilder = 160 points
    5 years as WBC Champion - 10 points
    10 fights against top 10 WBC opponents - 60 points
    8 fights against top five WBC opponents - 56 points
    4 fights against the highest ranked WBC fighter/champ at the time - 32 points
    DRAWING with someone who was "the man" and would become "the man" again (Fury) - give Wilder two points
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    #53
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    No that's not how it worked mate.

    Champion meant the divisional champion. Top ten meant divisional top ten. Top 5 meant divisional top 5. Highest ranked meant divisional highest ranked.

    So for Wilder

    That's:
    2 points for every year they were champion = 0
    6 points for every fighter they faced in the top 10 = 6 (Stiverne)
    7 points for every fighter they faced in the top 5 = 7 (Ortiz)
    8 points for every fighter they faced who was the highest ranked at the time = 0
    9 points for beating "the man" =0
    4 points for beating someone who was or would become "the man" =0

    So 13 points which is somewhere between Moorer and Rahman.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    #54
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  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What?

    What ratings are you using? I've heard of the WBC. I've heard of the National Boxing Association. I've heard of the Police Gazette ratings.

    I've never heard of the Matt Donnellson ratings.

    Even if you used the Ring ratings, Wilder has more than 21.

    Fury and Ortiz were ranked in the Ring top five all five times Wilder fought them. How does Wilder end up with SIX points for fighting SIX times with guys in the Ring Top five?
     
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    #55
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I added it up wrong anyways. He never beat Fury he only beat 2 men who were top ten ranked at the time: Stiverne and Ortiz. Ortiz was top 5 ranked.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    #56
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  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It says FACED.

    2 points for every year they were champion
    6 points for every fighter they faced in the top 10
    7 points for every fighter they faced in the top 5
    8 points for every fighter they faced who was the highest ranked at the time
    9 points for beating "the man"
    4 points for beating someone who was or would become "the man"

    And you only get points for fighting the NAME one time, even if you fight them multiple times?

    What sense does that make? So Ali only fought Frazier once?
     
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    #57
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    The post you quoted clearly wasn't based on faced, it was beaten. No one gets credit for drawing or losing.

    I made this years ago and I'm unsure if I gave credit for repeated victories. So Wilder might get the benefit of Ortiz 2. Which gives him a total of 20 I believe.

    Either way he ranks very lowly.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    #58
  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He certainly does rate very lowly when you don't include the fighters he fought or beat who were rated in the top 10 or the top five ... but you do for everyone else.

    Ortiz was rated in the top five Ring ratings and WBC ratings both times Wilder fought him. Bermane Stiverne was rated in the top 4 in the Ring ratings and was the WBC champ when Wilder won the title from him. Stiverne was the WBC #1 contender when Wilder defended against him. Fury was the WBC top four when Wilder fought him the first time, was the WBC#1 and Ring #1 when Wilder fought him the second time and was the World and WBC champ when Wilder fought him the third time.

    No points for fighting top 10 guys multiple times. No points for defending his title TWICE against Tyson Fury. No points for fighting Tyson Fury. No points for being the third longest reigning champ of the 21st century.
    But give a lot of points to guys who were in the Matt Donnellson ratings. :hang

    Makes all the sense in the world.

    This type of ratings system would be good if there was a pinch of accuracy to them. But when you refuse to include actual boxing organization rankings but focus instead on ratings by a guy named Matt Donnellson ... and you can't remember if you gave SOME guys points for fighting and beating people multiple times but not others ... it tends to fall by the wayside.

    How the hell does Jim Corbett have 50 points?
     
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    Dubblechin, Jul 17, 2022
    #59
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Have you seen how old this thread is lol. I made it years ago I don't even know if I have my original spreadsheet any more.

    But let's give Wilder every benefit of the doubt. Stiverne and both Ortiz fights 7 points each. That's 21.

    No points for losing to Fury, obviously. No points for having a belt when there were other fighters rated above him the whole time, obviously.

    Matts ratings were pre Ring, I wanted some way to compare from those eras and that was easiest. Yes I could have spent hours more trying to rank fighters myself, but someone else had already done it so i felt no need.

    The ratings system doesn't have to be good, it doesn't have to be anything. It was raw data thay could be tabulated, no more, no less.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    lufcrazy, Jul 17, 2022
    #60
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