Heavyweight division - Has it ever been as boring?

In all fairness, Puritty beat a very green Wlad, pre-Steward, who was way too active at the time and supposedly had a shoulder injury.

Puritty literally never landed a worthwhile punch on him all night. I watched the fight not too long ago half expecting to see Puritty land on Wlad's chin late or some such but it just didn't happen. Wlad gassed so completely towards the end that he just couldn't keep himself on his feet.

Brewster's a class A power puncher who matches Tyson and Lennox Lewis in power, as shown by his destruction of Golota in one.

Wlad beat the ever loving **** out of him and Brewster just finally caught up with him.

An improved Wlad more or less ended Brewster's career.

 

You are going somewhat over the top. Buddy Baer was bigger than Klitschko and could hit. Max Baer hit very hard, had a top chin, and had the stamina to go a fast TWENTY rounds. Walcott and Conn were certainly skillful boxers.
Few people would consider Firpo malnourished, nor Jack Sharkey.
I wouldn't put money on the 160 lb Pavlik defeating Machen, Folley, Valdes, Bethea, DeJohn, or Summerlin, let alone Patterson or Cleveland Williams.

 

Yes I apreciate that Wlad is on a bit of a roll at the moment and if he keeps it up his earlier losses could be written off as teething troubles.

If however he suffers another similar loss in the near future then we would certainly have to take it into acount when matching him against all time greats.

The next few fights will be crucial to determining his overall status.

 

Funny how they got away with that.

 

I was disgusted -thoroughly-by the performance of both Wlad and Sultan last night. These are champions?

To *******ize a quote by Thomas Jefferson, "I tremble [for boxing] when I reflect that [the paying public] is just."

I wouldn't pay 5 dollars to watch either of them again -and I'm a damn fantatic.

Klitschko offered yet another example that helps the argument that HWs have deficient skill and talent. This is not a "see-I-told-you-so" exercise because of a recent debate where I asserted that the lower weights have better fighters. I concur with Steward... Wlad's performance was woeful. I saw a large, physically powerful man fighting like a rabbit. A rabbit! The man came out at the first bell and was dramatically slapping Sultan's pathetic jab down in a way that no amateur would. He was exhorted to throw more rights and it wasn't as if he didn't -he couldn't half the time because his positioning was exactly wrong. Wlad's right foot was directly behind his left and that is not how you throw an effective right. His jab, the one that Kellerman called "elite" was pawing and archaic. When he committed to it, it was powerful, but the form was almost embarassing. He pulled back at the same time that he threw the shot... Wlad is afraid to get hit and that is obvious. I think he's meek.

Sultan's stategy suggested insanity. He tried to two things -a right hook and a left hook. Neither one worked at all, but that didn't deter him.

Boxing needs a vanguishing savior in the flagship division.

 

I agree completely.

He's got the potential to do a lot of things, but it's just that right now... Potential.

He very well could screw up again.

 

Good points, and I agree that some of those fighters might have beaten Wlad last night. On the otherhand, this can't be written off as a sloppy performance. He won every round against an undefeated titlist on the jab alone, and likely could have knocked him out any time he wanted to. I don't know why he held back, but it certainly wasn't anything that Ibragimov was doing that prevented him from reaking havock. When Wlad has been on a seek and destroy mission in the past, he has dispatched as good or better opponents with no trouble.

I'm not a big fan of Klitschko and nor am I making excuses for him, but we shouldn't draw cross era conclusions soley based on this performance. He did afterall win the fight in a virtual shut out.

 

Since when doesen't it?

Wlad IS meek. Who's going to dispute he's a warrior?

3/4th's of his problem are willpower ones. Being so damned tense against Puritty, for example. He doesn't seem to know how to relax consistently.

Even his brother, who has the chin, looked like he was on speed against Sanders, jumping into punches off the ropes.

 

Sure.

Perhaps the fact that Ibragimov was a southpaw made him reluctant to open up, especialy given the Sanders loss.

An interestin what if is how Joe Louis might have fared against a good southpaw which he never fought. Jack Roper was a switch hitter and had him puzled untill he walked into something explosive.

 

I think people are basing their entire assessments of Wlad on last nights fight. Obviously because it's fresh in your mind you will be thinking of that fight, but it really was a poor fight by Klitschko. His worst top level performance, easily.

People say "He has not fighting heart". Bollocks. Last night he didn't, but how could anyone say hehas no heart after watching him go down against Peter from shots behind the head twice, get up and fight him? He showed heart in that.

Others say "He has no killer instinct". Nonsense nce again. Watch him against Brock. He get's a cut, Manny tells him to step it up, he realises he is in danger of losing. What happens? he stops Brock in the next round.

I could go on, but there is probably no point. In a few weeks or a couple of months, people will associate Wlad with KO wins over Austin, Brock, Brewster and others. Not the atrocity from last night.

This fight however, summed up the problem with boxers fighting so rarely. It can no longer be an off-night or a styles clash (Which it certainly was). It gets put down to one guy not being good enough or having big faults. I thought the same after Williams/Quintana. Certain boxers are simply too unorthodox to get a great performance against.

I can't imagine people will think the same about Wlad in a month or so. Rightly so, of course. He is so much better than he showed last night.

 

1. Puritty--Rotten stamina is a gross weakness in a top fighter.
2. Brewster--calling Brewster the equal of Tyson or Lewis as a puncher off ko'ing Golota is really over-the-top spin. Both Lewis and Tyson showed consistent power against top men over long careers. Lewis blew out Golota in one and Tyson blew him out quickly also, a result negated by the drug issue. Brewster ko'd Golota and he ko'd Wlad in a good roll, and his overall career ko percentage is solid, but one could find dozens of second-tier heavyweight punchers who did as well at knocking out top men. In 1923 alone, Firpo ko'd Willard, Brennan, and Weinert, while Jack Renault ko'd Godfrey, Fulton, and Floyd Johnson. Brewster came into his rematch against Wlad after a loss to Lyakhovich and a more than a year layoff. He fought a cautious fight and quit on his stool. It is certainly equally possible that Brewster had gone back more than Wlad improved. Brewster was 34 and suffering from eye problems.

 

So are a lot of people at my gym.

I love Max as a persona AND he hit like a ton of bricks. But I think a lot of athletes, let alone big sized boxers, could hit pulverizingly hard if they committed to right hands the way he did, against all better defensive judgement or issues of balance or setting up any other punch. When he punches it reminds me of the county fair contest where you swing the mallet to hit the bell. Very Keystone Cops. I just see Wlad as too fast with that jab, or even that very sweet jab/hook he throws.

Certainly, though one was a light heavy soaking wet and the other was not exactly the paradigm of consistency. Neither would last against Klitschko, nor should they be asked to in perspective of their legacies.

No, Firpo was legit in terms of size and power though crude as the day is long. Kind of Hasim Rahman-esque. Sharkey also was something of a specimen physically but brought the proverbial 10 cent brain to his affairs. But then you have Carpentier, Brennan, Gibbons, Miske...

ok, that's a bit of hyperbole.

 

I agree that there is a tendency for fighters to be judged soley on their last fight.

I think the crucial question has to be whether he fought like that because Ibragimov was the best he had fought up to that point or for other tactical reasons.

 

1. Buddy Baer---I doubt the big men in your gym have knocked out several top ten heavies, have a ko percentage close to 80%, and fought 57 fights against top competition while being stopped only by Joe Louis. Klitschko's skill might give him a decisive edge over Buddy, but Buddy would be a dangerous opponent.
2. Max Baer---You have valid points about Max's crudity, but he also brings into the ring a superior chin and much better stamina. Against a puncher of Max's calibre, would Wlad simply go into a shell like he did last night and try to win it with jabs alone? Would that work? What happens if Max is still there in the late rounds? I think this is a toss-up fight.
3. Walcott & Sharkey---Both have erratic records next to Wlad, but both also fought more of the top men of their eras than Wlad has. I think both have the movement and skill to get past the early rounds and then who knows? I would favor either at their best over the talented, but mechanical and predictable, Wlad.

 

Buddy Baer has a chance of KO'ing just about anybody. But with his skills, I don't give him much of chance against Wlad. It is just a puncher's chance... i.e. not very great. Max ain't much better. They really were more characters than great fighters.

Byrd had great movement and was bigger than and more successful than either Walcott or Sharkey. I don't recall Wlad having much of a problem with him.