Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Dec 3, 2018.
I've actually never seen either fight all the way through...
I scored the 1973 fight for Norton, 9-3 in rounds, or 117-111 on the 10 point system, giving Ali 1,3,11, Norton winning 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12, the 12th could have been a 10-8 but I didn't score it that way. Norton was the aggressor all the way, if his balance had been better he would have won more impressively. He spent a lot of time staggering around after punching, he used a wide stance and almost locked his legs having little/no knee bend.
Ali never looked quick or crisp in any round, it could have been that he underestimated Norton or it could be because Norton was the first opponent he fought who was as nearly as big as him and athletic. Unless the fight looked different at ringside, I don't know how the judge scored for Ali. I didn't try to score on the California system that Cosell talked about.
I had some free time tonight and scored the 1976 fight too. Norton had improved his balance some since the first fight and Ali still showed little speed, quickness or power. I scored this fight more decisively for Norton, 11-3-1 in rounds, and 147-139 on the 10 point must system. I scored 1, 11, 12 for Ali with round 2 even. I scored 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,13,14,15 for Norton. There were some close rounds but in most rounds Norton landed enough to the body and/or he landed an effective overhand right that made Ali cover up. Ali never hurt or stunned Norton or made him hold on. In one round Ali apparently thumbed Norton near the end of the round and that was the only time Norton showed any sign of injury.
Norton stood right in front of Ali, he didn't use angles, and was never affected by any Ali punch, on the other hand, Norton was effective with his right hand and nailed Ali with it often. When Ali punched in close, his punches were mostly slaps that he didn't turn over. That the officials scored for Ali makes me think that they didn't score body punches in the 70s. I don't know who the commentator was, but he seemed to be more impressed by which fighter was talking to the other than by the actual fighting.
Norton one the first fight clean. 3rd bout I scored 8-7 for Norton. Close enough that the judges gave it to Ali. Ali never solved Norton in 3 fights and could of easily went 1-2 or 0-3 against him. Ali got wins for being Ali
Ali would have been a lot happier with out Kenny in his boxing life that's for sure. Norton always brought his best to the table against him ,He was just that certain something style wise that Muhammad couldn't crack .
Ali vs Norton 1 just listening to intros now, and debating weather to keep the volume on or shut it down lol. In some ways I live Cosell, but my word he is like Ali’s fan club calling a fight. I might keep it on just because I do find him entertaining but my he loved to hang on Ali and SRL’s sack all the time.
I think if the first fight was 15 rounds, Ali is stopped. Norton won the third fight too. He easily Ali, round after round without one big punch to swing any round by itself.
I can't recall what happened in the 2nd fight.
This is true, but as I have said for years Ali had trouble winning rounds vs good jabbers. Jones, Norton, Lyle, and Young. Past his prime, vs Holmes. Ali liked people to come to him, but a jabber doesn't need to really do that and since he didn't body punch, hook or in-fight well, ( He was a fantastic clincher ) if he didn't win the jab easy, he had a longer night.
He was well behind on points before stopping Lyle later, and probably lost on point to Jimmy Young as well.
Do you have a scorecard or is this just a gut feel type thing. Not saying I disagree, as I just got done rd 7 and taking a short break
Besides what has already been said, the other reason Norton did well against Ali is Ali lacked the punch to hurt him. Norton was obliterated by Foreman and Shavers, was stopped by Jose Garcia earlier in his career and nearly KO'd by a faded Jerry Quarry, but he walked through Ali's best shots. I don't recall Ali hurting him once in their three fights.
Well this time you and I scored 10 rounds the same and both ended with 9-3 cards....I didn’t understand that complex system, and Harold explained it wrong. They were in the process of explaining but the verdict came. I would need to know the system to decide if this is bad.
Only differences we had was you scored 1-3-11 Ali I scored 3-8-11 Ali
So outside of the first and 8th we agreed. Even giving Ali both of those rds he would still come out down 8-4
Edit: Howard not Harold
I'm about half way through Ali-Norton III and I agree with this breakdown almost 100%.
So far, I have:
Ali: 1, 7
Ali's definitely past it--looks like a very ordinary fighter with a questionable motor at this point in his career. Norton isn't doing anything special, but he's showing good enough reflexes and technique to deal with Ali's half-hearted offensive outbursts when they come, and otherwise just imposing himself on Ali and trying to hurl punches around his guard. Had some very nice moments when he took advantage of Ali's low left as Ali tried to turn and spin off of the ropes. Seems like Ali eventually adjusted, but Norton just started throwing more sharp blows to Ali's body.
And Ali's clowning around looks buffoonish at this point in his career, in a sad way.
Nearly KO’d by Quarry? Not even close. Norton destroyed him. The rest I agree with.
Question, I agree Ali lacked the punch to hurt Norton, but he sure shook Joe Frazier up a few times. Does that mean Frazier and Norton have about even chins, or based on the Ali fights was Norton’s better?
Quarry had Norton badly hurt in the first round.
I honestly think Ali was 0-3 against Norton.