Heavyweight FOTW #8: 1985 Triple (Thomas/Weaver, Holmes/Williams, Tubbs/Page)

These were the best Tubbs and Williams ever looked before or after.

Tubbs was in shape at 229 lbs and outboxed Page with clever movement and superior handspeed.

Williams was like a younger, fresher Holmes.

He outjabbed Larry all night long and closed one of his eyes.

Thomas struggled with Weaver but surprised by KOing Weaver with a single right hand - a punch which was supposedly a weakness.

Thomas never looked good again.

If I had to rate the performances in order Id say

Tubbs
Williams
Thomas
Holmes
Weaver
Page

 

Cool deal! Not sure if I have ever seen Tubbs vs Page, no memory I can recall either way. Solid choices. I got a busy weekend so I will try to do one tomorrow but may not get them done till Sunday Monday neighborhood. Pretty diverse choices

 

Just watched Thomas - Weaver, fun fight to watch. I had it EVEN going into the 8th round. I had given PT 1 (2 pts),7, MW 3,4,6 and scored 2,5 EVEN. I had it 67-67 going into the 8th or 3-2-2 in rounds for MW. PT, IMO, took a punch as well as anybody, MW landed some big punches on PT and he was only affected a few times. MW was a big puncher too. This is one of the best action Heavyweight fights, compares to Holyfield - Bowe, and Ibeabuchi - Tua.

 

Just scored Tubbs - Page, not an exciting fight like Weaver - Thomas. The commentators remarked throughout the fight that neither was giving it his all, I don't think that was the problem, I think both were trying but they knew each other too well and they were both so similar as fighters that it just made for a bad match up. According to the commentators, this was the 8th time they had fought. Both were big, fast fighters who fought at a distance, the combination of knowing each other too well and having the same style just didn't make for a good fight.

The scoring...I'm not sure there was a clear cut round for either fighter, there might have been. I scored for Page 144-143 or 7-6-2 in rounds but it was probably because he was a little busier IMO. I gave Page rounds 2,4,6,9,10,11,13, I gave Tubbs 5,7,8,12,14,15, and scored 1,3 EVEN. All of the rounds could have probably been scored EVEN. The judges had a clear win for Tubbs and the commentators seemed to think he edged it. I wouldn't argue with any score anybody had, IMO there just wasn't much action and nobody ever established dominance. Two good fighters who did what they could, but just a bad style match up.

 

Just scored Larry Holmes - Carl Williams. A lot of rounds were close but for me LH was the aggressor and made the fight. I scored it for LH 146-141, giving LH rounds 1,4,5,7,8,9,11,14,15, I gave CW 2,6,10,13, I scored 3,12 EVEN. In rounds I had LH winning 9-4-2.

It was a tough fight for LH, that might have been his first opponent who was taller, longer, and quick. When LH tried to pull back like he had against shorter, slower opponents it didn't work well. LH did his best work when he stayed close and slipped punches. He might have been more effective if he had gone under some of CW's punches but it is doubtful that LH had ever fought an opponent similar to CW before and going under punches is something he probably had never done. I had to mute the sound, Pacheco adds zero to a fight and he can ruin one. Two judges scored it 11-4 for LH and one scored it 8-7 for LH so my card is somewhere in the middle.

 

Thomas - Weaver:
10-8
20-17
29-27
38-37
47-47
56-57
66-66
KO

 

THOMAS IS CLEARING THE AIR
By Michael Katz | the New York Times | June 17, 1985

LAS VEGAS, Nev., June 16 — A brilliant light, color it pink, shone on the dark and dank heavyweight division Saturday night. Pinklon Thomas knocked out Mike Weaver with one beautiful right hand, defended his World Boxing Council title and established himself, if not as the true champion, as clearly the best of what often has been a slovenly collection.

Before an assortment of world champions, former world champions and alphabet champions, the undefeated Thomas brought some order to the heavyweight morass with an often-spectacular performance, capped by a right hand that traveled 6 inches to Weaver's temple and ended the scheduled 12-round bout at 1 minute 42 seconds of the eighth round.

Among those looking on at the Riviera Hotel and Casino were the world's two other heavyweight champions, Larry Holmes and Tony Tubbs.

Even Holmes, who has been called "a mouse, a rat," by Thomas, was impressed by his heir apparent's performance in a rare fast-paced heavyweight fight.

"Pinklon Thomas is a great fighter," said Holmes, the International Boxing Federation's champion, "and one of these days he's going to be a great champion - when I leave."

In a way, Holmes has already left the heavyweight picture. The 35-year-old fighter, at the tailend of a brilliant career, is carefully choosing his opponents now and Saturday signed to meet Michael Spinks, the light-heavyweight champion, in September.

The 27-year-old Thomas can claim all he wants to be the "real champion," and even Weaver said Thomas would beat Holmes "right now." But so long as Holmes is around, or until he is defeated in the ring, it is difficult to recognize anyone other than the man who has held the title for seven years, until recently against all comers.

Tubbs, the World Boxing Associationversion of an undefeated heavyweight champion, said he would "like to settle things with Thomas as soon as possible." But first he must defend against Tim Witherspoon, once again one of the few real contenders in the decision. Witherspoon, whom Thomas beat for the W.B.C. title last Aug. 31, scored a lopsided 12-round victory over James (Bonecrusher) Smith on the undercard Saturday night, following a second-round knockout of James Broad in April.

Don King, the heavyweight promoter, does not envision any unification fight "until Larry leaves the scene." Bob Lee, president of the I.B.F., has said his organization might then recognize the winner of a bout between the W.B.C. and the W.B.A. champions. But he also said it might not.

Meanwhile, Thomas said he would take a brief vacation before defending against "someone easy" after tough bouts with Witherspoon and Weaver - easy, as in Trevor Berbick, who knocked out a sluggish and weak David Bey in the 11th round here Saturday night.

Thomas, a vision of heavyweight class in pink trunks and robe, supplied the division with someone to respect with his performance against the ever-dangerous Weaver. He has always had an explosive left jab - one that Weaver, who has been hit by both, said was "more powerful than Holmes's."

But he showed a champion's chin and fighting spirit. Thomas was cut inside his lower lip in the first round, even while flooring the slow-starting Weaver, and "sucking blood" thereafter, according to his ace cut man and co-trainer, Bill Prezant. But he took Weaver's best shots - his one weakness is defense - in the third, fourth and fifth rounds, and each time responded by attacking.

The fighting spirit inside the ring should have been no surprise, considering that Thomas bounced back from teen-age heroin addiction and has since overcome breaks to both hands and, last October, needed an operation to repair retinal damage to his right eye.

He has a fine chance of becoming a popular champion. The night before the bout, unannounced, he appeared at a record store in one of the worst sections of town to address youths on drug abuse.

He said it has been difficult for him to obtain commercial endorsements because sponsors were worried about the "quick turnover" in heavyweight champions. Until now, there has been little order in a division where Sugar Ray Leonard, the former welterweight champion, decried the "disgraceful lack of pride" displayed by many so-called leading contenders.

"Maybe there ought to be a 225-pound weight limit," said Leonard, "or at least no one should be permitted into the ring with fat hanging down the sides of his trunks."

Leonard said many heavyweights showed "disrespect" for the sport by fighting in much less than their best condition.

It was Bey's turn Saturday night, but even Witherspoon, not to mention Greg Page or Broad, have also been guilty of fighting while out of shape. Page, Gerry Cooney and Michael Dokes appear to have dissipated their outstanding talents, showing little lust for the game.

With three world champions and a host of minor titles, there has been a desperate need for challengers. Things have got so bad that King has promised Alfredo Evangelista, the Spaniard who has been recycled more times than most aluminum cans, another title shot should he win the European championship again, and 41-year-old Joe Frazier is forever tempted to make one more comeback. They should think pink and desist.

 

Williams Presses Holmes, but Loses:Champion 48-0 After Unanimous Vote
The Washington Post | May 21, 1985

Larry Holmes, 35, moved within one fight of matching Rocky Marciano's record tonight by winning a unanimous 15-round decision over Carl (The Truth) Williams.

But afterward, all Holmes wanted to talk about was a long rest.

"We'll take a long look and see where we're going," he said. "Then I'll take a long rest. I've got to go home and think about it. They are getting younger and stronger. These young guys are really game. But a champion fights until there are no bells.

"This man was ready. He's been training with Marvis Frazier and I've been training for three weeks. I took this fight on three weeks notice."

Holmes, whose third fight in six months gave him a 48-0 record, left the Lawlor Events Center immediately after the fight accompanied by a doctor and headed to his hotel for medical attention. His left eye was swelled nearly shut.

"That's the most punishment Larry's taken since I've been with him," said trainer Eddie Futch, who joined Holmes' camp four years and 11 fights ago.

Only Marciano, 49-0 when he retired at age 33 in 1956, has retired as undefeated heavyweight champion.

Williams appeared fresher at the end and was still doing a lot of talking, just as he had done in the days leading up to the fight.

"I've been saying all along I'm the uncrowned king and the heir to the throne," he said.

He said he thought he had won the fight and "I think the least I could have gotten was a draw. I fought a hell of a fight."

Many of the 6,046 in the 12,100 seat arena agreed, but two judges saw it 146-139 and the third voted 143-142.

But while the 35-year-old Holmes was a unanimous winner to retain his International Boxing Federation title, he was very tired at the end, and at times he appeared tentative against Williams, 25, who went into the fight with a 16-0 record.

Each fighter hurt the other but was unable to follow up. Williams, who is 6 feet 4 and weighed 215, showed a fine left jab and held his own with Holmes, 222 1/4, through the first six rounds.

In the ninth, Holmes closed strongly with jabs and hooks. But Williams, who was knocked down twice in the first two rounds of his previous fight -- a 10-round decision over James Tillis last Oct. 23 -- never was in danger of going down.

Holmes backed Williams up with a right early in the 15th, then hit him on the head and body. But he was too tired to take advantage and had to settle for a decision in Reno's first title fight since Jack Johnson knocked out Jim Jeffriesin the 15th round July 4, 1910.

Holmes, who has 34 knockouts in his career, got $2.3 million. Williams, of White Plains, N.Y., who looked nothing like a 6 1/2-1 underdog, was paid $175,000.

In earlier heavyweight matches, Frazier won a 10-round unanimous decision over Tillis, and Randy (Tex) Cobb was knocked down for the first time in his career and lost a 10-round unanimous decision to Eddie Gregg.

In a scheduled 10-round lightweight fight, Bobby Chacon, 33, knocked out Davey Montana at 2:19 of the ninth round.

 

https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/quest-glory-larry-holmes-vs-carl-williams

 

PAGE LOSES TITLE TO TUBBS
The New York Times, April 30, 1985

BUFFALO, April 29 — Critics of Greg Page—and some admirers as well—have said that the 26-year-old boxer needed something, perhaps a bolt of lighting, to permanently free him from the notion that he was going to be the next Muhammad Ali.

The bolt of lightning may have struck tonight in the person of Tony (TNT) Tubbs. Executing a conservative but disciplined fight plan, Tubbs, challenging Page for his World Boxing Association title, capitalized on Page's every mistake to win a unanimous decision and the W.B.A. title.

It was Tubbs's first time at 15 rounds, and only the second time in eight fights that he has defeated Page. The two fought seven times as amateurs, with Page winning six bouts.

"But that was amateur boxing," Tubbs said. "Tonight we fought as professionals."

"Determination won it for me tonight," Tubbs said. "I knew it was a close fight, I was just trying to pace myself for 15 rounds. Greg's mostly a counterpuncher, and even at 239 pounds, he can hurt you with either hand, so I just tried to get there first with my punches and tag him when he came in."

Page lost two fights in a row, last March 9 to Tim Witherspoon and Aug. 31 to David Bey, then replaced his entire crew. Soon after, he won the title when he knocked out Gerrie Coetzee in the eighth round last Dec. 1. If Page revived any notions of comparisons to Ali with that victory, they were dispelled tonight.

"There is only one Muhammand Ali," said Jimmy Ellis, Tubbs's trainer, a former heavyweight world champion who was once a sparring partner for Ali. "People liked the the way he moved in the ring and the things he did. But there was only one. I guess it's tempting for a guy to try to imitate him, but you just have to find your own style."

In other title bouts, Tim Witherspoon scored a vicious second-round knockout to take the North American Boxing Federation championship from James Broad. And Hector (Macho) Camacho won a 12-round decision from Roque Montoya to win the vacated North American Boxing Federation lightweight championship.

Throughout the week, Camacho and Page had predicted early evenings for themselves. Page had said he would knock out Tubbs in four. He was sadly mistaken.

"When we first got here they told me that Greg was playing basketball and not training," Tubbs said. "Maybe he was thinking back on the amateur days. I was ready. It took me a long time to get here."

Judge Al Tremari scored it 145-142, Joe Santareia scored it 145-140 and Al Wolinski socred it 147-140 for Tubbs.

With Page (24-4) alternating between meaningless dancing and Ali-like hip gyrations, Tubbs (22-0) continually beat Page to the punch with stiff lefts and rights and sharp combinations.

When Page did his Jersey Joe Walcottwalk-away, which Walcott fashioned to lure opponents into his right hand, Tubbs either ran him down and landed a looping right hand, or cut Page off and landed a left hook.

When Page tried various body feints that Ali popularized, Tubbs, displaying amazingly fast hands, shot his opponent with a sharp jab or a quick combination.

Page's scoring was sporadic. While he landed some big punches, he was never quick enough to follow up with combinations.

He missed badly and was hit. When Tubbs missed, Page, usually an excellent counterpuncher, would either just miss or catch Tubbs with a glancing punch.

"I hurt my right hand in the second round," Page said. "I'm not making any excuses. I trained hard for the fight and I did what my trainer told me to do. Tony beat me in our first professional fight, I'll beat him in the second."

 

Sorry I didn’t catch this the other day and not sure if you remember? You scored rd 10 for both guys and no one for 11....I assume a slip of the finger...either way just curious if you know which guy you scored 10 & 11 for

 

Yea, I don't know if I've ever seen anybody take punches like that before, Weaver hits hard and usually when he lands clean the opponent is hurt. I had a friend who lived in Ca. tell me that in his opinion Alex Garcia's career collapsed because he sparred too much with Weaver. He thought that Weaver hit too hard for anybody to spar with consistently. Thomas was hit clean with punches he didn't see from Weaver and took them like they didn't affect him. Most fighters who are known for taking punches aren't real aggressive and are usually defensive and see the punches that hit them. Thomas was aggressive, he was throwing punches and took them. He'd have been a tough fight for anybody at that time.