Heavyweight FOTW #9: Joe Frazier Triple (Bonavena, Ali, Bugner)

I can get excited about Frazier fights very quickly! Good choices

 

Interesting note on the scoring system for those like myself not familiar with this British scoring system: 5 pts for winning a round- 4 3/4 for losing? Never done this system before...should be interesting

1973-07-02 : Joe Frazier 208 lbs beat Joe Bugner 221 lbs by PTS in round 12 of 12

• Location: Earls Court Arena, Kensington, London, United Kingdom
• Referee: Harry Gibbs 59¼-58½

• British referee Harry Gibbs, the only official, scored it 59¼ points for Frazier and 58½ for Bugner. Under the British scoring system, the winner of a round receives 5 points and the loser 4¾.
• Frazier put Bugner down with a left hook in a neutral corner in the tenth round.

 

Looking at the judges scorecards for Frazier vs Bonavena I....

Is this done with 0 points awarded for even rounds....1 pt to the winner of the round...and an additional point for knockdowns?

Because it looks like the judge who scored it for Bonavena scored round 2 4-0 in order to have it 5-5 in rounds and 8-5 in supplemental scoring? While the other 2 judges either didn’t award those points or had some 0 pt rds? Just curious if anyone knows, as I would like to score it under the ruleset it was fought under

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=tm8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3160,5291125&hl=en

 

Joe Frazier - Joe Bugner
0-1
0-2
1-2
2-2
3-2
4-2
5-2
5-2
7-2
8-2 (KD)
9-2
10-2

Total: 118-109 Frazier

 

Joe Frazier - Muhammad Ali 1

0-1
0-2
1-2
1-3
1-4
2-4
3-4
4-4
4-5-1
5-5-1 (10-8 round)
6-5-1
7-5-1
7-6-1
8-6-1 (10-8 round)

Frazier had Ali badly hurt for a long period of 11th, IMO 10-8 round. 15th round is 10-8 too.

Total score: 144-140 Joe Frazier

 

Just scored Frazier - Bonavena, except for the second round, JF looked as good as I've ever seen him look for the first 7 rounds. I had him winning everything except the second which was a 3 point round for OB. Then JF got tired and Bonavena came on for the last 3 rounds.
Round 1- JF 10-9
2- OB 10-7
3- JF 10-9
4- JF 10-9
5- JF 10-9
6- JF 10-9
7- JF 10-9 (67-64)
8- EVEN
9- OB 10-9
10- OB 10-9 95-94 for Joe Frazier, and 6-3-1 in rounds for JF

JF used his right hand well in the first 7 rounds, almost knocked OB down with it in the 5th. OB showed that being strong and in good condition can overcome a lot. If OB had trained in the same places as JF, his skills might have been better and the result might well have been different. After seeing Ali against Don Logan, Frazier against Bonavena, and Quarry against Miteff, I don't know that any of them improved later except maybe their pacing for longer fights. They all looked energetic and quick in those early fights. I'm not a believer that a lot of hard fights makes a better fighter.

 

I scored Frazier - Bugner, I didn't give JB any rounds and scored it 120-107 for JF with the two point round in the 10th. JF walked through JB's punches and JB just threw arm punches. There was seldom any weight transfer when JB punched, a lot of the time he "jabbed" without pushing/pulling off of his right foot, JB was just a tall, tough, athlete in the ring with a boxer. Maybe JB's size kept him from being knocked out, he took some hard punches every round because he had nothing to get JF's respect or to keep JF away.

If JB had good training, he might have been a champion, his toughness can't be questioned in this fight.

 

I scored the Ali - Frazier 1 fight. This was the first time I have watched it in a long time, JF seemed to dominate this time. A lot of effective body work, and the left hook to Ali's jaw landed consistently. That the commentators and some of the judges had it close makes me wonder if body punches were scored in the 70s. I gave JF rounds 1,2,3,4,7,8,11,12,13,14,15 (2 point), I gave MA 5,9,10, and scored round 6 EVEN. I had JF winning 11-3-1 in rounds and 147-138 on the 10 point system.

I didn't score the 11th as a two point round for JF, but it could have been. It's surprising that MA didn't get penalized for holding. JF landed numerous hooks and some rights throughout the fight that were harder than anything Ali landed. MA did take a lot of body shots and took them well. It was a good, fast paced heavyweight fight.

 

Frazier vs Bonavena I
I really am glad that I am not a fan of any boxer in particular over the last 25 years or so, as I struggle to score fights for guys I am a fan of,...always wonder if I am biased even if I try not to be. It is easier when you have no rooting interest.

I think a split decision is fair even though it pains me to say so. I really don’t like this arbitrary scoring system where 1 judge awarded Bonavena 4 pts in rd 2 while the other 2 scored 3 pts. I just wished it was more concrete. Based on this scoring system I think 8-5 (1 judge did) for Bonavena is fair even though that is not my score, it is defendable. Round 1 & 8-10 could all be scored for Bonavena adding in the points for Round 2 (3-4 pts I guess, I called 3 as did 2 of the judges)...on the Frazier side I feel he clearly won 3-7 for 5 pts and 1 & 8-9 could be scored for him/even or Bonavena as they were close rounds.so I also think an 8-4/7-5 card are fair in Frazier’s favor.

Bonavena held back it seemed to me the final minute and half of round 2 when Frazier still seemed off balance. Kudos to Frazier for not only finishing on his feet but holding his own over the final minute which is why the 4 pt round does not sound good to me, but that is my only complaint in the judging and that judge would still have Bonavena winning 7-5 so no real harm there.

I scored 2 rounds even 1/9 that I almost gave to Frazier but held back out of fear of bias lol. I really don’t feel comfortable judging Philly boxers fights and would decline to in real life out of a conflict of interest.

Frazier uses his jab moving in, and while he will never be a great jabber I hope watching fights like this and Quarry especially will dispel the narrative that he does not have a jab...also the reports of Joe having his right arm amputated and being a one armed fighter also don’t align with the nice rights that he throws in this fight. I really hate when people regurgitate the same diatribe over and over when it is not substantiated or ground in reality.

Anyway, off of my tangent and on to RBR
1 Even
2 Bonavena 1+2 (Bonavena 3-0)
3 Frazier (Bonavena 3-1)
4 Frazier (Bonavena 3-2)
5 Frazier (3-3)
6 Frazier (Frazier 4-3)
7 Frazier (Frazier 5-3)
8 Frazier (Frazier 6-3)
9 Even
10 Bonavena (Frazier 6-4)

I have Frazier 6-4 but don’t feel comfortable because I am biased (even though I hope my scoring is not...I just don’t feel ethical doing this) and expected Frazier to win my card before even beginning...oh well

 

Battle of the Joes
Frazier vs Bugner - I really enjoy Bugner and always felt like he could have been much better than he was, which was still pretty darn good. One wonders if the ring death affected him and if so to what degree. I can’t imagine what life looks like after that, even though I am a die hard boxing enthusiast.

Anyway, not a fan of the commentary who must have seen a different fight than me, and to a lesser degree the ref (I think he had it 6-3-3 but didn’t actually calculate this goofball system...my apologies to brits who like it lol)

RBR
1 Bugner
2 Bugner
3 Even
4 Frazier
5 Frazier
6 Frazier
7 Frazier
8 Frazier
9 Frazier
10 Frazier
11 Frazier
12 Frazier

Frazier 59 1/2 to 57 3/4 ( man I hope we never do a fight that uses this scoring system again lol)
Or Frazier 118-110

 

Just out of curiosity...
You had it 4-4 after 8 rounds
And 4-5-1 after 9 rounds
Did you score 9 even or Ali or both?

Or did you skip a round? And score 9 or 10 even and the other Ali? Just trying to compile it and the math is not adding up lol

 

Frazier vs Ali I
I never grow tired of this fight! I usually score it 11-4 to 8-6-1 Frazier....this was of the 8-6-1 variety but think they are both fair and the verdicts of the judges and refs encompass this spectrum.

RBR
1 Ali
2 Ali
3 Frazier
4 Even
5 Ali
6 Frazier
7 Frazier
8 Frazier
9 Ali
10 Ali
11 Frazier
12 Frazier
13 Frazier
14 Ali
15 Frazier
Frazier 8-6-1

 

I've just missed that round, 9th to Ali, 4-5, and then 10th even.

 

Ali-Frazier I - NY rounds basis. Had the fight been even in rounds I could have employed the supplemental system and given Joe extra points for rounds 11 and 15.

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Frazier
Round 6: Frazier
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Frazier
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Ali
Round 11: Frazier
Round 12: Frazier
Round 13: Frazier
Round 14: Ali
Round 15: Frazier

Total: 7-6-2 Frazier