Heavyweight FOTW #9: Joe Frazier Triple (Bonavena, Ali, Bugner)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Feb 19, 2019.



  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Frazier-Bugner

    Round 1: Bugner
    Round 2: Bugner
    Round 3: Frazier
    Round 4: Even
    Round 5: Frazier
    Round 6: Even
    Round 7: Frazier
    Round 8: Frazier
    Round 9: Frazier
    Round 10: Frazier (scores a knockdown)
    Round 11: Frazier
    Round 12: Frazier

    Total: 59 1/2 - 57 3/4 for Frazier

    I scored the 10th round 5 - 4 1/2 for Frazier with the knockdown. But despite the onesidedness in rounds, Bugner really did put up a good fight.
     
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  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I ended up with:

    1 Even
    2 Bonavena 1+2 (Bonavena 3-0)
    3 Frazier (Bonavena 3-1)
    4 Frazier (Bonavena 3-2)
    5 Frazier (3-3)
    6 Frazier (Frazier 4-3) (close)
    7 Frazier (Frazier 5-3) (barely)
    8 Even (Frazier 5-3)
    9 Frazier (Frazier 6-3)
    10 Bonavena (Frazier 6-4)

    Almost called 7 even but either way I had Joe ahead. Round 1 and the rounds in the second half of the fight were mostly pretty close, so I don't think a Frazier loss would have been a robbery here.

    Probably the most diverse offensive fight I ever remember seeing from Joe. I wonder why he relied so disproportionately on his hook alone in so many other fights.

    Weirdest part of the fight for me was that Bonavena looked like a pretty smart, strategic fighter in the first two rounds but then sort of devolved into a clueless slugger who had no idea how to deal with Frazier's aggression. I noticed in the first round that he had a great idea when he tried to time Joe with a short, surprise straight right. It fell short then but it worked out beautifully in the next round. Seemed like that punch could have been his ticket to stopping Joe. But from then on it seemed like the only rights he was throwing were virtually all slow, telegraphed, roundhouse types that didn't have a prayer of landing effectively. Strange.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  3. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    I thought the same thing about JF, he looked like a left shoulder forward, fight behind the jab boxer for a lot of this fight. He was effective working behind the jab and as you mentioned, he didn't rely almost entirely on the hook. Later he became so reliant on the hook that he neglected to use his jab or right hand. At the time of this fight, he was young, probably training full time, and doing what his trainers told him. As fighters move up in the ratings, their training is something that is often neglected until their training camp before a fight and the fighter has his own ideas about what works for him, he might not listen to his trainer as much.
     
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  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I really feel like he used his jab like this a lot during his career at least up until 72-73 when he clearly became more reliant on the hook or less of a multi dimensional fighter. I equate it to Tyson being a great body puncher early in his career and more of a head hunter later on. I think the narrative on Frazier not jabbing or being one armed is largely 73+. Looking at this fight Quarry I, Mathis etc. I think Frazier was more diverse than given credit for. Just my $0.02
     
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  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Frazier v Bonavena 1

    1 10-9
    2 7-10
    3 10-9
    4 10-9
    5 10-9
    6 10-9
    7 10-9
    8 10-9
    9 10-9
    10 9-10

    Frazier wins 8-2 in rounds, 96-92 on points by modern 10-point must system.

    Frazier bossed the fight imo, apart from the second where he got dropped twice and the last where Ringo landed some great shots.

    I didn't think it was that close, Frazier was the aggressor and landed the better punches but Bonavena showed an excellent chin and good strength throughout. Frazier was in control without ever really hurting Bonavena. As already mentioned, Joe used his jab well to set up his offense and used his right hand effectively, not overusing the left hook.

    If Bonavena had let his hands go a bit more in the middle of the fight, it could have set up a grandstand finish, but I think he left it too late.

    Good, competitive fight though despite the lopsided rounds score.
     
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  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier vs Bugner consensus 4 cards (I hope no one minds that I adjusted your cards only to reflect the official system used based on the rounds that you awarded).

    To my knowledge no additional points were awarded in this system for. a KD

    RBR
    1 Bugner 3-1-0
    2 Bugner 3-1-0
    3 Frazier 3-0-1
    4 Frazier 3-0-1
    5 Frazier 4-0-0
    6 Frazier 3-0-1
    7-12 Frazier 4-0-0
    10-2 in rounds for Frazier
    Frazier 59 1/2 to 57 1/2

    Frazier UD on our cards
    @Big Ukrainian 59 1/2- 57 1/2
    @Pat M 60-57
    @PhillyPhan69 59 1/2- 57 3/4
    @scartissue 59 1/2- 58

    What a horrible scoring system lol
     
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  7. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier vs Ali I
    Surprised that we only had 4 score such a prolific and well known fight

    Consensus rounds
    1 Ali 3-1-0
    2 Ali 3-1-0
    3 Frazier 3-0-1
    4 Ali 2-1-1
    5 Ali 3-1-0
    6 Frazier 3-0-1
    7 Frazier 3-0-1
    8 Frazier 4-0-0
    9 Ali 4-0-0
    10 Ali 3-0-1
    11 Frazier 4-0-0
    12 Frazier 4-0-0
    13 Frazier 4-0-0
    14 Ali 3-1-0
    15 Frazier 4-0-0

    Frazier 8-7 by consensus
    Frazier UD
    @Big Ukrainian 8-6-1
    @Pat M 11-3-1
    @PhillyPhan69 8-6-1
    @scartissue 7-6-2
     
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  8. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier vs Bonavena I consensus of 4 cards

    RBR
    1 Frazier 2-0-2
    2 Bonavena 3 pt round 4-0-0
    3-7 Frazier 4-0-0
    8 Frazier 2-0-2
    9 Frazier 2-1-1
    10 Bonavena 4-0-0
    Frazier 8-4

    Frazier UD
    @Pat M 6-5
    @PhillyPhan69 6-4
    @mrkoolkevin 6-4
    @Jel 8-4

    Only rounds 1-8-9 were not unanimous. Pretty easy fight to score by most rounds. Good job guys
     
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  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    For what it's worth I have Ali up 4-1 through 5:

    R1: Ali. Very close round and Joe landed a few solid punches but I think Ali outworked him.

    R2: Big Ali round. Was really lighting Frazier up with some of his combinations. Mobile but fighting flat-footed and sitting on his punches. Joe took a mini-beating that round.

    R3: Frazier. Relentless. Finally breaking through with some of his hard looping punches.

    R4: Ali just barely holds on to his early round lead, after Frazier breaks through and lands some good hooks late in the round. Tough round to score. Almost called it even. Ali battered him throughout the first half of the round, constantly whipping his head with stiff punches.

    R5: Ali in a close one. Frazier showboating but still eating a lot of punches.
     
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  10. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It’s worth a lot to me, I love seeing the varying scores and ways of viewing a fight.

    You have it the same as big Ukrainian and scar and myself are close to yours we have it 3-1-1. Pat has it 4-1 (not a dig at Pat, I appreciate his cards and thoughts weekly, and in 8/10 cases we see it similar) the opposite direction. I enjoy seeing the variables on the widest ends as well. Looking forward to the rest of the card
     
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  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Agreed their is a very fine line. A lot of or a few hard fights , or 1 or 2, can completely ruin a fighter prematurely.
     
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  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    R6: Frazier. Outworked a tiring Ali.
    R7: Ali edged it slightly (almost scored it even)
    R8: Frazier
    R9: Ali
    R10: Ali
    R11: Frazier (big)
    R12: Frazier
    R13: Frazier (Ali eating some hard punches)
    R14: Ali
    R15: Frazier!

    Total: Ali 8, Frazier 7+1 = Draw??

    Would have been a 1-point Frazier win if I'd scored round 7 even.