Heavyweight King

He hardly got the better of Norton and Young. On paper, Holmes and Spinks as well.

 

If we're just talking about reversing losses on one's record... Tyson beating Holyfield would be seen as nothing special as Holyfield was believed to be shot more or less at that time. A win over Lewis would be of higher significance, but not as much as it had. But Tyson would look very good with wins like this under his belt, anyway. Especially since it would have been losses avoided.

But this is kind of complicated. For example, reversing Ali's loss to Frazier may actually lessen his legacy, since Frazier wouldn't have been seen as such a formidable fighter then. And Foreman built his legacy on beating Frazier, and Ali built his to a degree on beating Foreman.

Had Louis beaten Charles, that would have been something, though. And a win over Marciano might have been a big deal if Marciano had went on later and cleaned house in the division.

Dempsey beating Tunney wouldn't mean much. Liston beating Clay would mean that he didn't have those embarrassing losses. That would surely propel him. Holmes beating Tyson in '88 would make him one of the greatest ever, no doubt. That would have been the single greatest win in boxing, probably.

 

well the Holmes and Spinks fights were not in Ali's prime. But he was still fighting top names after so many years competing at the highest level.

 

He hardly got the better of Norton at all. Three fights all very close with one terrible decision in the rubber match.

 

If Tyson had dominated he 90's like he did the late 80's he would look very good for the nr. 1 spot.

 

Well, I'd say that especially Louis, but also Marciano and Tyson could have supassed Ali with these wins. Dempsey and Frazier would look very good also. It would be crowded up there.

 

Might not have been his performance. But still good enough to leave it undecided.

AND he fought with a broken jaw. That is good for his legacy.

 

You can go on with that stuff forever. He lost to a relatively nobody, but look, he fought with a broken jaw, look at how good that is for his legacy?

 

All I ever said was Ali had the best over anybody he has fought, and yes he lost at the end of his career a few fights that he did not redeem. But whatever...
The guy was the complete fighter.

 

I wanna go back to Larry Holmes. This is a list of his title wins.

Ken Norton
Alfredo Evangelista
Ossie Ocasio
Mike Weaver
Earnie Shavers
Lorenzo Zanon
Leroy Jones
Scott LeDoux
Muhammad Ali
Trevor Berbick
Leon Spinks
Renaldo Snipes
Gerry Cooney
Tex Cobb
Lucien Rodriguez
Tim Witherspoon
Scott Frank
Marvis Frazier
Bonecrusher Smith
David Bey
Carl Williams

what it could/should have been:

Ken Norton
Alfredo Evangelista
Ossie Ocasio
Mike Weaver
Earnie Shavers
John Tate*
Gerrie Coetzee*
Muhammad Ali
Trevor Berbick
Leon Spinks
Renaldo Snipes
Gerry Cooney
Michael Dokes*
Tim Witherspoon
Tim Witherspoon*
Greg Page*
Pinklon Thomas*
Tony Tubbs*
Bonecrusher Smith
David Bey
Carl Williams

IF he had won all those title fights, after than it really wouldn't have mattered...

 

The fight report says Lowry should have won, and in fact stunned Marciano with punches. However Rocky was the name draw with connections, so he got the nod.

The same thing happened in the first LaStarza match. In the book the Rock of his times, it states the papers, and crowd felt LaStarza won, and LaStarza felt he was robbed.

If we go on the crowd reactions and the news paper reports, it is probable that Marciano should have at least one loss on his resume.

I recommend the Rock of this times. Its a rare look behind the curtain of Maracino's career. Two men steered their willing warhorse to glory. They were Weil and Goldman. Weil was manager and match maker with connections, one of which was mob related. Goldman was the trainer. Goldman said that Marciano had to be taught how to punch, and never went to the body in his first ten fights. He also had to shorten Marciano's wide stance, and did so by tying a rope around his shoes.

 

What if he also beat Tyson and Holyfield? /Then he would have virtually cleaned the 90s like ali did in the 70s, when past his best.

 

Larry got a late start due to injuries. He was inactive half of 74 and most of 76.

Larry was already starting to struggle with Smith and Williams. He should have retired right around 85 or so.

 

You need to Re-Read the book. Both Weill and Goldman were not even in Marcianos corner until at least his 10th pro fight, and Rocky had already survived getting thrown in vs a 8-0 and 15-0 prospect. Rocky was certainly not protected in the VERY begining of his pro career.