Heavyweight project for Heavyweight posters.

I'd be interested to see if this thread goes anywhere, quite a good idea. Hopefully some bite.

 

Very interesting thread! I'm no specialist for this time though. But I give it a try:

01. Johnson
02. Jeffries
03. Fitz
04. Jackson
05. Sullivan
06. Corbett
07. Hart
08. Choynski
09. Sharkey
10. Ruhlin
11. Burns
12. Slavin
13. Kilrain
14. Maher
15. Goddard
16. O'Brien
17. Jim Flynn
18. Martin
19. Childs
20. Armstrong
21. Monroe
22. Wilson
23. Klondike
24. Root
25. Griffin

I think the Top15 have the right names in it and I'm pretty happy with my Top11. But the lower end it a bit messy I think.

I look forward to Janitor's.

 

i have nowhere near the knowledge to contribute but like smith i hope it goes somewhere and will happily watch it unfold

 

Langford, McVey and Jeanette must be tantalisingly close to qualifying for this time period. I think that they can probably be included.

ON the other end of the time scale, Bill Farnan, Tom Lees, Charlie Mitchell, Larry Foley are also worthy of discussions also.

Another name that is never discussed, is Mick Dooley. I dont think he would make a top 25 list, but he wouldnt be too far away, would he.

I would like to see some discussion of potential candidates before posting a list, if for no other reason, than i am sure I would forget some obvious ones if i posted a list straight away.

 

1885-1909 top 15

1. Jeffries
2. Fitzsimmos
3. Johnson - Johnson peaked late in 06-09', not great from 1890-1903
4. Corbett
5. Jackson
6. Langford - Langford also peaked late from 07-09'
6. Sullivan
7. Sharkey
8. Griffin
9. Choynski
10. Slavin
11. Burns
12. Goddard
13. Hart
14. Ruhlin
15. Mcvey - McVey peaked late from 07-09'

I reserve the right to shuffle them. Choynski had remerable foot speed, a fire******* of a left hook, and fine stamina. He did not have the best chin, and had some issues with cuts. I try 1910-1934 later. Early guess is Choynski is good enough for top 15 there.

 

Hm, but the thread starter wroe you should ake he whole career into consideration. I don't think you can rank Fitz above Johnson when you do. Jeffries could be argued but I wouldn't eiher.

 

Ranking Fitz above Johnson isnt anywhere near as far fetched as it sounds. Even Fitz above Jeffreies isnt totally out of the question. It is often forgotten that fighters lose focus after winning the heavyweight championship. Fitz was post prime (despite great efforts) with Jeffries and it is possible that he should be given the same lattitude that Dempsey is with the Tunney fights. He certainly fought a lot more and seemed to have a much better KO streak than either Johnson or Jeffries. Interestingly, Prime Fitz did far better against a prime Joe Choynski than either Johnson or Jeffries.

To put Fitz' heavyweight career into perspective, it is probably on par with a 1990s version of what Evander Holyfield did.

To start my list, (and it will change), here goes:

1. James J Jeffries - He beat everyone, and he retired when there was noone left to fight. It was a short career, but an undefeated one, and he simply beat them all. I place a lot of stock in winning and that is what he did.

2. John L Sullivan - He was lethal and he fought more fighters everywhere. He had better KO power than anyone else in the time period, with the possible exception of Fitz and i dont think this is disputed. When past prime, he showed tremendous heart and character which Prime John L was never required to.

3. Jack Johnson - What a shame he didnt peak 2 or 3 years earlier. He cleaned out the coloured title and then cleaned out the white challengers. That is a clean out, despite the fact that we all would have liked to see a few certain fighters get rematches. You dont win as many fights as jack did, with so many gunning for you, unless you are something special. He was.

4. Bob Fitzsimmons - It is often forgotten, but Fitz was pretty much past prime when he won the title. In his entire career, he lost just two fights in his prime (Mick Dooley and Jim Hall) both were avenged and at least one was dubious to say the least. His KO record even as a heavyweight is better than anyone in the period except sullivan and it is on par with him. Fitz was as good a heavyweight as there is. I am even tempted to rate him higher, if only to create a little controversy.

5. Peter Jackson - He was rated by his contemporaries so highly, that he must have been good. He drew with Corbett, but i think the consensus is that he was a little hard done by due to injury and that he was slightly better than Corbett.

6. Jim Corbett - It is often forgotten today that he was the muhammed Ali of his time. An excellent fighter who is a little hard done by and unfairly considered to have a glass jaw. He didnt. Fitz and Jeffries both hit him as hard as any heavys have ever been hit.

I think i feel pretty comfortable with the first 6. From there it gets very difficult to rank. Sharkey, Farnan, Goddard, Ruhlin, Choynski and perhaps Langford and McVey would be the guys that I would put on the list next, i think, but i need to think more about it.

 

Taking the names you listed:

Sullivan, Jeffries and Johnson are virtualy interchangable for first place. If you rank them on dominance then you would have:

1. Sullivan
2. Jeffries
3. Johnson

If you ranked them based on depth of body of work you would have

1. Johnson
2. Jeffries
3. Sullivan

If all the fighters on your list faced off in their respective primes then it would come down to these three, with Peter Jackson being the possible spoiler.

Taking the list from there I would be inclined to say that Jackson, Corbett and Fitzsimmons are the contenders for the fourth slot, and they are interchangable for places 4-6.

4. Jackson
5. Fitzsimmons
6. Corbett


After that Tommy Burns and Marvin Hart kind of get the next two slots by default because they were world champions

7. Burns
8. Hart

Then it comes down to establishing which contenders hard the most dominating presence ion their era. Slavin, Maher and Sharkey were all seen as kingmakers or title claimants. Joe Choynski arguably beat two of my top 3.

9. Slavin
10. Goddard
11. Choynski
12. Killrain
13. Sharkey
14. Martin
15. Maher
16. Ruhlin
17. McCoy
18. Childs
19. Kaufman
20. O'Brien
21. Armstrong
22. Gardner
23. Griffin
24. Flyn
25. Haines

 

I could take a stab at the top ten/fifteen ,but after that it would be guesswork,I will leave it to those more qualified,to appraise what should be a good thread.

 

very interesting thread, keep it up.

Aint got the knowledge myself to participate unfortunatly.

 

Bump

(Now complete)