Heavyweight project for Heavyweight posters.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Feb 23, 2010.


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  1. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    louis
    marciano
    (patterson)
    liston
    walcott
    charles
    johansson
    moore
    bivins
    conn
    machen
    h.johnson
    ray
    valdez
    farr
    folley
    la starza
    savold
    williams
    layne
    satterfield
    maxim
    henry
    godoy
    B.baer
    nova
     
    bodhi, Mar 1, 2010
    bodhi, Mar 1, 2010
    #46
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bodhi, I think you have Ray high but everything else is reasonable to me.
    ps do you think Floyd is pre or post '59?
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 1, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 1, 2010
    #47
  3. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hey I just noticed Patterson ahead of Liston, Bohdi ??????????!
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 1, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 1, 2010
    #48
  4. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hard to judge. He won the title pre '59 so I would include him there.

    Yeah, Ray was a bit too high. I corrected it.


    Yep. I don't rate Liston as high as others. I think Patterson has an overall better resume, slighly better longevity at the top, added with him beeing the first two time champ, youngest champ this justifies him beeing above Sonny.
     
    bodhi, Mar 1, 2010
    bodhi, Mar 1, 2010
    #49
  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    60-84 lads;
    Ali
    patterson(?)
    chuvalo
    cleroux
    D.Jones
    H.Cooper
    Terrell
    Frazier
    martin
    Quarry
    ellis
    spencer
    mathis
    bonavena
    m.foster
    peralta
    foreman
    shaver
    lyle
    young
    middleton
    bugner
    mildenberger
    L,spinks
    tate
    bobick
    ledoux
    coetzee
    knoetze
    al jones
    l.jones
    weaver
    ocasio
    norton
    S.ward
    ko smith
    dokes
    berbick
    page
    bey
    mercado
    cobb
    snipes
    thomas
    cooney
    norton
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 2, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 2, 2010
    #50
  6. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'LL try this lot;
    1 Ali
    holmes
    Foreman
    frazier
    norton

    6 young
    patterson
    quarry
    ellis
    terrell
    11 tate
    dokes
    weaver
    berbick
    lyle
    16 shavers
    cooney
    thomas
    page
    coetzee
    21 bonavena
    martin
    bugner
    ocasio
    cooper
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 2, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 2, 2010
    #51
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That is actualy not as far fetched as it sounds.
     
    janitor, Mar 2, 2010
    janitor, Mar 2, 2010
    #52
  8. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    liston beat Machen, Folley, Patterson, Williams, Wepner.
    Patterson beat Ingo, Machen, bonavena, chuvalo, moore Hmmnnn and Floyd never lost to a Marshall, did better v Ali. If you leave out their direct contests I think Floyd does edge it but can we leave them out?
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 2, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 2, 2010
    #53
  9. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, you could add Ellis, Quarry and Maxim for Patterson too though. And Henry Cooper should be on his list also. There is more in Patterson's resume than you might see on a first glance.
    Even with the two losses he edges it, especially when you consider the circumstances: style and size advantage for Liston. Add that Patterson was the youngest champ and the first two time champ, a top conender for a longer time. The only thing Liston has going for him is dominance and the two wins over him. Not enough to rank him above Patterson imo.


    btw. I can't see Norton beeing ranked over him either.
     
    bodhi, Mar 2, 2010
    bodhi, Mar 2, 2010
    #54
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Floyd was actually level on one judges card v Ali the second time, when stopped. Respect what you say re Quarry, Ellis and Maxim but he lost to all of them as well as drawing with Jerry. Liston was leading Martin when ko'd if I remember correctly.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 3, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 3, 2010
    #55
  11. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    All hree decisions are in doubt so. Press row had the Maxim fight in favour of Patterson. All of hem actually. Ellis was highly controversial. Floyd didn't get a knockdown he should have gotten and busted Ellis up pretty badly. The decision could and perhaps should have gotten his way. Similar with Quarry, although I think that's the most just of the three decisions but it can still be doubted.

    Patterson is pretty underrated on here and I think Liston got quite a bit overrated - I think McGrain deserves some credit for this :lol: - so, I'm ready to get critizised for my ranking. For example I rank Schmeling and Tyson above Liston, too.
     
    bodhi, Mar 3, 2010
    bodhi, Mar 3, 2010
    #56
  12. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I actually agree that Liiston's resumee is thin for his ranking, he struggled a bit with Machen and Williams is only great because he gave Sonny such a hard fight. However in rating fighters, while I give resumee a big weight, I also factor in peak ability, consistancy, longevity and the final crucial ingredient which I call "gut instinct" but is actually in fact a fancy phrase for my "personal biases!"
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 3, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 3, 2010
    #57
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well we are up to 1985-09;
    Canidates include but not exclusively-
    witherspoon
    seldon
    mercer
    morrison
    Damiani
    bruno
    bonecrusher
    ruddock
    tucker
    doughlas
    mccall
    tyson
    holyfield
    lewis
    bowe
    tubbs
    v.klit
    w.klit
    byrd
    ruiz
    rahman
    tua
    moorer
    botha
    golota
    akiwanda
    briggs
    maskaev
    williams
    grant
    ike
    sanders
    toney
    brewster
    peters
    valuev
    chagaev
    chambers
    povetkin
    thompson
    toney
    ibragamov
    lyakhovick
    k.johnson
    Thats 44 contenders and i've left out guys like Biggs. Masom, Barrett, McCline etc.
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 3, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 3, 2010
    #58
  14. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: I like that. I go mostly by resume, longevity, dominance and accomplishments. Consistency would be part of resume.
     
    bodhi, Mar 3, 2010
    bodhi, Mar 3, 2010
    #59
  15. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I really did not want to be the person rating the current period as I dont feel qualified eneough; here goes-
    1 Lewis
    2 Holyfield
    3 Tyson
    4 Bowe
    5 v.Klit
    6 W.Klit
    7 witherspoon
    8 Doughlas
    9 moorer
    10 tubbs

    11 tucker
    12 tua
    13 ike
    14 byrd
    15 smith

    16 mccall
    17 bruno
    18 ruddock
    19 ruiz
    20 rachman

    21 golota
    22 toney
    23 mercer
    24 chagaev
    25 morrison

    opinions, dissenting views welcome!
     
    mattdonnellon, Mar 4, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Mar 4, 2010
    #60
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