Heavyweight Tourney: Rd 3: Gene Tunney .Vs. Rocky Marciano

:good

 

And that's understandable too. But there's clearly a counter part to be analyzed here. I'm glad you at least see that.

 

Well said, a good point that was very well addressed. You said what I wanted to say only much clearer.

 

Rocky doesn't lunge in and carless and Dempsey usually does. At least a refined and smart Rocky doesn't (The best of the man).

There is no way Tunney can win this fight by KO as far as I'm concerned. That's about a 1/25 for me and that feels generous. Marciano doesn't cut as bad as most claim, and in an early time the fight would definitely not get stopped. Tunney can't last 15 rounds with his style without being overwhelmed. His best chance to win is a 10 round fight. If it's 10 rounds, he can steal 5-7 but that's really favorably to fight for Gene and not Rocky here. So I imagine and prefer a 12-15 rounder, which I prefer the Rock. Can Tunney KO Rocky? No, but I guess the fight could be stopped. I seriously doubt it.

 

Tunney on points, in a bloodbath.

A fading and fairly static Ezzard Charles went 15 rounds with a prime Marciano, so it's not as if all good boxers are going to get KO'd sooner or later. I think a prime Tunney boxed as well as a fading Charles, for sure, at the very least. And hit as hard, and was as durable, at the least, and had as much resolve and survival instinct, and absorbed punishment in the same way. Fresher legs, and a varied arsenal of punches.

It would be a rough, brusing, bloody battle with both men getting beaten up. Tunney ripping in jabs, one-twos and uppercuts, Marciano throwing everything including the kitchen sink. I think Tunney's precise hitting and ring generalship would edge it.

 

Marciano for me. This would actually e an action fight by my reckoning. People look into the Dempsey fights way too much when picturing Tunney fight in their mind's eye. Though that would be his style on this night almost definitely. Marciano wins via his normal route, leaves it all in the ring and reaps the rewards.

 

I've often thought about this one and I've often changed my mind regarding the outcome. Put a gun to my head and I'll pick Tunney. A prime Tunney anyway. Tunney had nearly everything in his favor except power and perhaps durability. He was taller, had a longer reach, better skills and most importantly speed both in hands and feet. Tunney would be the most mobile fighter Rocky ever fought. Look at the dancing Gene employed against Dempsey. He moved alot like Ali or Conn. None of Rocky's opponents moved like that. Not even Walcott. Most of Rocky's opponents were there to be hit. Gene wouldn't be. Marciano isn't outboxing Gene to a points victory ala Charles I. The only way Rocky wins is by wearing Tunney down and KOing him late in the fight and I don't like his chances. Impossible? Of course not. After all this is Rocky Marciano we're talking about. Likely or probable? I don't think so.

 

Tunney was one of the smartest fighters who ever lived.......but The Rock was a different kind of animal......he was a force of nature....

 

I respect your opinion, but i can't picture any scenario in which Tunney, when behind in the fight, suddenly goes forward and not only wins rounds this way, but stops Marciano; something that has never happened. Tunney could hurt Dempsey because he connected so easily. If he can hit Rocky just as easy, then maybe, MAYBE, it's possible, but even then i wouldn't bet on it. At any rate, the chance of Tunney landing with ease is extremely small. Marciano is just too good a counter puncher and hitter in general.

Tall, lanky guys rarely have success being aggressive against shorter but broader built, "tank" kind of fighters. In fact, i'm scratching my head to think of a single example where that has happened. Only when the shorter guy was hopelessly outclassed, i suppose. Shorter guys always have the advantage coming forward and on the inside, where their smaller reach and height are an advantage because the other guy needs more space to get his punches. Dempsey, by the way, doesn't fall in that shorter category.

One other thing is that Tunney fought very few quality heavyweights. Of course he has Dempsey 2x, but let's not forget that on the rare occasion that Dempsey did connect, he nearly knocked Tunney out. What happens if a much better Marciano is standing on the other side of the ring when he receives the count?

As for who'd see winning after 8 or 10 rounds? I don't know. I do know that Greb arguably beat Tunney over 10 rounds, so i don't think it's any stretch of imagination to suggest that Rocky does the same. He was a slow starter, but not THAT slow.

 

Well, Walcott hits harder and just as sharp as Tunney I think. And his heavyweight power has carried with much bigger men (Abe Simon testimony, Joe Louis, etc). Tunney is sharp, but at HW his claim is against an aging reckless Dempsey. Dempsey wasn't exactly as durable as Marciano, he spent his time on the canvas much more often than the Rock did and sometimes never got up (20 Seconds on the canvas against Flyn).

Puncher's chance? You're really starting to overate Tunney's power and underrate Marciano's durability. I don't even think Ali can KO Marciano, let alone I have my doubts he even drops them and that's within a similar style matchup with a much better more complete fighter versus a smaller, inferior Tunney. Let's just be clear.

 

Excellent post :good

 

Can I say one thing too. I really think that Charles is being sold short. Ezzard Charles did go 15 rounds with Rocky. But the battering he took, and the gallantry he had to withstand that punishment is nothing short of astonishing. Also, there are being comparisons made. Yes, Tunney fought off the back foot and danced more but Charles fought better in the pocket than Tunney did, I think. And the fight was a boxing match for sections, but Marciano was out-slugging and out-brawling after Charles for most of the fight and most of the rounds. Charles was a very game fighter - very tough. He was a boxer by the book, and even past his prime his technical ability keep him in rounds for some sprints of the fight. He doesn't have the legs nor ability to move backwards, but with Tunney doing so I don't see his offensive getting through as easy to expect. Marciano didn't have to chase much, Charles was off the back foot cautiously. But fighting just outside the pocket was enough for Charles to try scoring, but it's a danger and the only chance and danger Charles had. Tunney goes backpedaling, Marciano moves in much more cautiously and much more intelligently.



Also, Marciano became a bit more of an attrition swarmer from 54 onwards. He didn't load up all the way as much, and he had lost a tad bit of speed in his combinations. He was still a terrific Marciano. I'm not sure which style has a better chance, but a more slugging version has a chance to seriously dent Tunney if he catches. But the attrition one is very difficult to win a decision against (Hence the slight alteration).

 

good post....The thing here is while Tunney may be able to move well early...Rocky went well to the body,arms and chest,elbows and head. It was non stop. Charles is highly underated and his KO record at heavy exceeds Gene. I am glad to see Tunney get props and I think highly of him but I see the fight taking its toll on Gene as the fight moves on. Marciano handled Walcot, who had better power than Tunney and a very acurate banger and slickster. and Lastarza was a mover, also Matthews. I see Tunney doing well early but the battle of attrition favors Marciano and the last 5 rds a tough area for Gene.

 

I actually like Tunney but it i a very interesting fight .. very competitive. No doubt a prime Tunney is much better than anyone Marciano ever fought.