Heavyweights. Old timers vs modern.

That's reasonable. The old vs modern stuff is naturally controversial. I love the old fighters. In a way, I'd like them to stay at the top h2h, I just think the evidence is that they won't. Although, maybe the Ali Jennings thing is too much. With modern training etc, an ATG like Ali could win.

Try not to get offended by the comparisons, it's just a natural thing to speculate on when all the tangible sports have factually progressed. Especially when you have crazy trolls out there who try to disparage everything modern hws do. Maybe the "modernists" go to far in reaction to that.

 

Funny my ass. What you said only shows how ridicuolusly stacked the 70s are, that you have to dig deep to find a limited contender like a Ruiz jr.

 

Kinda pleasantly surprised that the poll numbers have held up for the moderns to this point. I still suspect that if this thread stays around long enough to get alot more votes, it will swing at least slightly to favor the oldies.

 

Joe Frazier would KO Joe Parker in less than 4 rounds.

Wlad Klitschko couldn't beat 90's era left overs in his own era and people think his era was better than past era's??

 

Ha!

 

I have a really hard time envisaging a guy like Wlad out boxing and knocking out a guy like Ali.

Skills can overcome size.

 

Weight is only one factor.

Mercer may not have been much heavier than Lewis, but Lewis is 6'5, with an 84" reach, compared to Mercer, who's 6'1, with a 77" reach. Therefore, he's classed as a smaller HW.

Skills can overcome size, and as we all know: Styles make fights.

Ali was 6'3, with a 78" reach. Along with his unique skill set and speed, it was more than enough to cause any HW in history major problems.

 

Hiya mate, how's things?


I love these debates. But it makes me laugh when you say things like: "I won't completely rule out an old ATG beating one of the top modern SHW's"

You say it as though it would have been so unlikely. Whereas in my honest opinion, lots of old ATG's would have beaten modern SHW's.

 

Didn't you hear? Old ATG's weren't fat and sloppy enough to be compared to today's SHWs.

 

Why 'obviously'?

You really think Haye and Povetkin would have dominated an era that included:

Ali
Foreman
Frazier
Holmes

?

Based on what?

 

No. You have to be logical. But at the same time, it's not a given that today's modern SHW's would have beaten the old ATG's, just due to size and sports science etc.

 

No it's not.

 

Skills can overcome size, and styles make fights.


Any knowledgable boxing fan knows the following:

Great fighters of today, could beat the great fighters of the past.

Great fighters of the past, could beat the great fighters of today.


It doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

Hey Loudon, hope all's well. We'll never agree on this stuff, but your one of the reasonable ones, and you take these things the right way. I'll respond on one of your other posts for debate purposes.

 

This is a very reasonable comment for the most part, as I say above us "modernists" probably get a little over the top at times in reaction to the ones who completely disparage modern fighters.

But that said, comments like "any reasonable poster knows" isn't fair. I know you don't agree with it substantively, but surely you can acknowledge that "modernists" such as myself are "reasonable" posters. I know you think boxing can't be compared to any other sport, but i think you can appreciate that it is not an unreasonable position for someone to point out that that all sports with tangible records have seen increases in performance. Those sports have seen a change in body sizes that mirrors the same changes seen in hw boxing. Those are powerful indicia that there has been progress in a general sense.

Can it be proven unequivocally? No, in that respect, boxing is unlike those other sports. But it is certainly reasonable to make that determination.

Really, in many ways I prefer the old timers. Certainly Louis and Ali have a legacy that will never be rivalled. Part of me would like to think of them as the best at h2h as well. I just think it's highly unlikely based on all available evidence.

Also, if you have a chance, look for the last thread I made about " heavyweight champ prototype" I'd be interested in your thought on that, especially in its relevance to this topic.