Hector Camacho vs Roger Mayweather @130

I wish someone would have told Hector that he had a great chin. Hector gets hurt in a fight and starts just trying to survive the rest of the nite. He's definitely not walking through guys like Chavez.
Both guys have weaknesses. The Black Mamba has the tools and the skillset to make it interesting.

 

Camacho isnt way faster then Mayweather .
Mayweather vs Munoz for an example of Mayweather moving.
You never followed him until more then likely Jr.welter .
At jr.lightweight he could fly around the ring.
He actually shook Chavez but didnt put him down.
And wow Camacho is a little hard to knockout when from the first bell hes in survival mode.
And Mayweather gave Chavez a good fight at jr.welter. Camacho did what with Chavez?
AT jr.lightweight a pickem fight.
At jr welter Mayweather crushes Camacho and bad.
And you do know that they sparred when both were jr.lightweights?

 

In the wash up Mayweather didn't have many fights at 130 at all. Less than 10 actually. Camacho was the same. You are focusing on Mayweather at 130 but are you giving Camacho the same treatment as i don't remember Camacho being in survival mode from the first bell in these lighter fights? As a matter of fact i don't remember it happening at all until post Rosario.

Have a look at Camacho vs Limon for Camacho at his 130 best.

I wouldn't be placing any faith in sparring "stories" tho they did spar a bit very early.

Mayweather was a good JL for sure but the loss to the vastly underrated (at the time) Rocky Lockridge stands out a bit.

He'd be potentially awkward for sure.

 

Thats the million dollar qiestion: Camacho was aggressive till he got rocked by Rosario.
What happens if Mayweather rockd him?

 

Although I was a big fan of the Black Mamba, I would pick Hector to win this by UD. Roger, although possessing a great jab and excellent handspeed, was very selective with his punches and would be made to be the aggressor. Hector would utilize his excellent foot movement, handspeed and defense to box around Mayweather.

 

Camacho still narrowly won vs Rosario. Rosario hit far harder than Mayweather, in fact i think he is comfortably a top #5 lightweight puncher of all time. Mayweather isn't shaking him up with single shots to the extent Rosario did. There's more chance of Camacho putting Roger on his backside imo.

Camacho has been knocked down what, once in his career? Look at the list of punchers he fought. He was declined even by the time he faced Chavez let alone Trinidad let alone Oscar. He took heaps of punches against these guys particularly given he'd lost speed and youthfulness.

Camacho had a great chin.

 

Pretty bad analysis.

Firstly, this thread spefically speculates on s 1983 fight at 130 lbs.

Camacho had a much better chin overall than Roger, and certainly did at 130 lbs, where Roger was decimated by Lockridge and Chavez, and rocked by Jorge Alvarado.

Camacho was busier.

He had better defense.

Mayweather had more power and a better jab.

Those advantages are nullified by Camacho's foot movement, ability to throw punches in bunches, and defense.

They sparred. So what.

At 130, Camacho never fought in survival mode.

 

Camacho got dropped by Cruz .
Camacho wasnt even trying to win those bouts- just trying to survive .
Mayweathers righthand was a one punch weapon.
And his righthand was just as feared as Rosarios.
Dropped Pernell hard at lightweight- who even came close to that? NOBODY.
Camacho was a great fighter who was alot of fun to watch coming up and yes he was faster then Mayweather but it wasnt like a Roy Jones compared to Gene Fullmer type comparison - Mayweather had some quick hands of his own .

 

Sorry but whilst Roger had a very very good right hand it isn't in the same stratosphere as Rosario's. Ask yourself who did Roger ever actually KO?? Also ask yourself who he actually beat. There's a reason Rosario comes in at #36 on The Ring's Greatest Punchers of All Time and Roger isn't mentioned.

Roger was ko'd by 1 punch in 90 seconds against Lockridge when Roger was at his 130 peak. Lockridge was a good but not great puncher. Chavez dropped him at 130 just about every time he hit him cleanly. Roger was somewhat talented but very very fragile.

Camacho won 79 fights and lost 6 so it's not like he didn't try to win that much.

Whitaker was in his 12th pro fight and. Mayweather had 30 under his belt and was much more experienced. Mayweather was also dropped heavily in the 1st by Whitaker who was an average puncher. There's every chance the bell saved him. Lets not forget that Mayweather hit Whitaker with an absolute dog shot while he was down and this certainly wouldn't have helped his recovery thereafter.

 

Mayweather beat:
Mario Martinez
Harold Brazier
Kenny Baysmore
Vinny Pazienza
Renne Arrendono
Gato Gonzales
Livingstone Bramble
Terrance Ali
Sammy Fuentes
Tony Baltazar- that was a horrible decision.

Lets be honest after 1987 Camacho would feast on club fighters land a big fight and then SURVIVE the entire time doing nothing to even try to win.
And then the process would repeat itself all over again.
Hell I honestly thought Mancini beat Camacho.
i think Camachos last good win was vs Davis.
Take Pazeniza. Mayweather beat him up and dropped him. Camacho won a close decision.
Look at Mayweather vs Chavez 2. At one point Mayweather was beating Chavez and it was a pretty good fight .Chavez finally got to Mayweather and made Roger quit in his corner.
Camacho won how many rounds vs Chavez??
Sure Camacho had talent then Mayweather but what happened the first time Camacho got hurt?
I know Mayweather will fight back when hurt but Camacho RUNS the first time he gets tagged good .
Besides stopping Bramble who did Rosario ever knockout? Howard Davis went the distance.
Randall did too. Who?

 

Mario Martinez - Ok win, very close decision over a guy that lost every time he stepped up.
Harold Brazier - Super close decision, out on his feet numerous times late vs a lighter punching fringe guy.
Kenny Baysmore - Who?
Vinny Pazienza - Probably his best win. Paz beaten resoundingly by Greg Haugen 9 months prior.
Renne Arrendono - Who? Ko'd in 1 round 12 months prior by Tsuyoshi Hamada.
Gato Gonzales - Twice beaten the previous year and not even close to high tier.
Livingstone Bramble - Never near as good post Rosario blitz. His record from Rosario forward is 16-25-2. He'd lost to all sorts of relative scrubs before fighting Mayweather and was coming off two losses to boot to ordinary fighters. Not much of a win at all by this point lets be honest.
Terrance Ali - Ok win nothing more.
Sammy Fuentes - 14-4 going in and coming off two losses in a row including a 2nd round stoppage.
Tony Baltazar- Tony's claim to fame is dropping Davis twice. No good win ever excepting Roger. Schooled by Macho well later.

It's pretty thin overall. You fail to mention Serrano who while nothing amazing is a better win than at least 7 you name. Oscar Bejines is better than many named even if middling.

Camacho wasn't the same fighter post Rosario and was quite ordinary by the Haugen fight. Life in the fast lane. Post 87 he has wins over Mancini, Paz, your prior mentioned Baltazar and Haugen. Roger if anything did less in this period and was stopped by an average fighter.

Camacho showed plenty of spirit as late as ODLH. He also took loads of heavy punches against Chavez and kept on going.

LA Times and the AP both scored it for Camacho by 2 and 4 points respectively.

The Haugen win is quite reasonable.

Camacho won easily, lets not be silly. AP scored it 117-111 and NYDN had it 118-109.

Who cares about rounds won? Chavez belted Roger both times.

When was Mayweather beating Chavez? He was miles behind and won 2 rounds at best.

Camacho had been hurt pre Rosario and fought back. If Mayweather hurt him at 130 he'd be fighting back rest assured. It was a different Macho.

Now we are doubting Rosario as a puncher. "Besides" doesn't cut it because Rosario did stop Bramble. He stopped Robert Elizondo in under 2 minutes. Elizondo is better than many you put forth as Roger's best wins.

Edwin Viruet had gone 25 rounds with peak Roberto Duran and not been dropped. He also gave De Jesus a good fight. He had never been stopped. Rosario put paid to him with a single brutal right hand.

Davis was dropped twice. He had the iron chinned Ramirez up and down like a yoyo, he all but chased Camacho out of the ring in hurting him badly twice. Even when badly faded he was stopping younger guys like Anthony Jones to win world titles. He had Loreto Garza down near every time he hit him flush in taking his WBA JW title in 3 rounds. He had immense power.

 

Mayweather is a good fighter. He's fast, excellent right hand, long snapping jab and good height and reach. He's fragile tho. Camacho is durable, incredibly fast and had decent power at 130. He faded quick and lacked some intangibles for greatness.

 

Kenny Baysmore was a huge prospect- outstanding amateur as well. Unbeaten and Mayweather sparked him in 3.
Renee Arrendono was a former champion.
Harold Brazier was an outstanding contender .
Brazier had just schooled Meekins who was a hot prospect that Brenner and everyone else were touting as a future champion .
Bramble- agree he wasnt world class when he met Mayweather but he was still very durable as a couple of fights latter went the distance with KT. Mayweather brutalized Bramble.
Ruben Munoz- Beat former champion Frias and was a prospect coming into the Mayweather bout.
Won 2 rounds vs Mayweather and got dropped.
Sammy Fuentes- you failed to mention he latter became WBO champion and beat fringe contender Hector Lopez. Mayweather beat up Fuentes and stopped him .
Terrance Ali - was an outstanding win being he beat
Future champion Charles Murray a couple of bouts latter. Mayweather outboxed him easily which actually suprised me.
Mayweather fought EVERYBODY win or lose.
Usually he won .Sometimes he didnt.
Camacho i thought was the second coming of Leonard. He had everything- speed,combinations, and great lateral movement.
The one thing he didnt have was heart. You can point to the fast life style all you want but plenty of fighters have lived the same lifestyle and actually produced.
He did NOTHING in the Chavez fight to even attempt to win but go the distance. And as you know a boxer LOOKING to go the distance is very hard to stop.
And De La Hoya and Trinadad he did the same.
Haugen would never would have even signed to fight Mayweather.
As far a Rosario sure he could hit but I think hes overrated. Viruet win looks great on paper until you take into account Viruet hadnt really done anything for years prior to Rosario- the Esteban fight was four years prior to Rosario. And Hayes stopped Viruet in ONE round in Viruets next bout .
Elizondo? He lost everytime he stepped up and usually by stoppage. Name one really good boxer he beat.
Rameriez stopped Rosario. Great fight but Rosario got stopped .
Garza was a great win and unexpected. But Rosario got knocked out in his next bout in ONE round.
And if im being honest I thought Davis beat Rosario.
Ive really enjoyed are debate by the way.

 

Camacho UD.

 

Agreed, but personally I'm going to go out on the limb and say Camacho stops Mayweather whin 10 rds, and the fight wouldn't be close. Most who saw Camacho before the drugs and before Rasario saw a fighter as complete as a fighter could be. Lightning fast and aggressive. I still say his destruction of iron chinned Bazooka Limon was one of the most dominant performances against a world class fighter I've seen. Limon wasn't as skilled as Mayweather, but Mayweather didn't have half the toughness of Limon. At Jr.light, and before Rasario, Camacho blitzkrieg Mayweather within 10rds. And I'm being generous with the 10rds.