Help with my #5 Heavyweight

I would have Marciano there.

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Jack Johnson
7. George Foreman
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Sonny Liston
10. Joe Frazier

My list is a bit dicey yet because I just recently put Lewis up and haven't really considered the other rankings.

 

I'd look closely at Holyfield.

A small HW with a Marciano-mentality in terms of never-say-die and extreme-conditioning who cut a swathe against respectable guys en route to the HW title. That war with a resurrected Dokes on the way was something to behold. It may have been the best brawl since Manila. He vanquished Douglas who exploded Tyson. He turned back a dangerous and ready Foreman, beat an older but still formidable Holmes, and lost to a version of Bowe that I would rank very high on the HW head-to-head list. With Futch in his corner and on that Dick Gregory diet, Bowe was a force that night. But then we had the surprise of Holyfield beating Bowe in the rematch ... looking back, that victory is extreme. Holyfield really had no business beating any of the giants. But he did. Then he destroyed a comebacking Tyson at the last moment of Tyson's mythical powers.

I like his power too -the first man to put down Bowe. The first man to put down Mercer. The KO of Tyson. And he was the best cruiser ever before stepping up.

 

You just said he'd lose to Louis, then you said he'd beat him. Which? I personally think Liston a tad overrated head to head because of his size, he was not as big as he seemed. Someone like Foreman was a much bigger fighter, and a bigger hitter. Lewis makes him look like a shrimp. Hell, even Ali made him look semi-small. I'd take Holmes, Ali, Lewis, Foreman, and possibly Tyson over Liston head to head of the top Heavys.

 

I think the Rock is probably a fair pick. Foreman works pretty well for me to. It looks like this is a unanimous vote for John's #5 pick, but of course we all still appreciate Janitor's input.

 

I'd say Marciano, but all those guys should be ranked ahead of Lennox Lewis.

 

I think Jack Johnson

 

I'm no expert but here's my breakdown with the choices for top 5:

Foreman - ran his division for awhile. Made perhaps the greatest comeback in history.
Liston - tough nut to crack. Good wins tainted with the "fix" fight and losses to "unremarkable" opposition.
Frazier - loses only to Ali and Foreman. Tasted the canvas a lot, didn't hold the title for long. Could be argued that his title was defended against weak opposition (i.e. a somewhat green Ali, Ron Stander)
Holyfield - good run early on followed by a fairly bad decline. Basing his HW career, on Tyson I and II, Bowe II, Foreman, and Moorer, I would rank him high. But there is John Ruiz, Larry Donald, etc.
Marciano - 49-0 against the tops of his day...even if the tops were not the Golden Era HW's.
Tyson - schooled a weak division. Didn't bounce back from losing all that well as others did. Became a crude one-punch KO'er (or tried to be later on).

My picks are between Foreman and Rocky M. But they're all greats.

 

Glad to help. I agree about George, too. His win over Moorer is the stuff of legends and he put on a respectable performance against Holyfield but he had some losses there, gift wins, some bad beatings, and so on.

It can just be hard to think about comeback George and not picture him blasting Moorer on the chin.