Henry Armstrong as Welterweight Champ

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SwarmingSlugger, Feb 6, 2025.


  1. SwarmingSlugger

    SwarmingSlugger Active Member Full Member

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    Don't really hear much about Armstrong's reign as WW champ, it's mostly all about him holding titles simultaneously. How good was his competition and defenses of the welterweight crown? How did it compare to other WW greats?
     
  2. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    Like Larry Holmes, Joe Louis or any champion who has a lot of defenses at one weight, after a while they run out of high quality opponents. Armstrong defended his belt against top fighters like Ceferino Garcia and Fritzie Zivic. More often he went up against guys like Bobby Pacho, Howard Scott and Richie Fontaine. There are many on this forum who can tell us about the good but not great fighters on Armstrong's resume but I'm not one of them.

    Armstrong had a long, distinguished reign at welterweight but overall I would say his time at the top was a bit lacking in quality.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2025
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  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I wrote this about 2 years ago. As it says below, I am not trying to run down Henry, but just scrutinizing the talent.

    Rather than create a new thread that I probably would have titled 'Boxing Sacrilege', I resurrected an old thread of mine which my OP got me thinking on. In it I mentioned several fights that I just couldn't understand was for the title and mentioned were a couple of Henry Armstrong fights. But the more I looked at his record the more mystified I was. We've all been in awe of his 20 title defenses of his welterweight title - myself included - but when one really looks closely, I have to say it, guys, it was one of the worst reigns I've seen. Now before you throw a rope over a tree for me, let me explain. What he did was amazing at winning the 126 lb. title then move up to welterweight and beat Barney Ross for the crown. Again, this was amazing and let's not forget beating Ambers at lightweight. But if you're the champion, it is expected of you to put your title on the line against the top contenders at that weight. No one gets a pass. I am a stickler for this. The title shot should be given if earned. No gimmes. So let's examine his list of challengers:

    1) Ceferino Garcia W15 - a good solid welterweight title defense.
    2) Al Manfredo KO3 - Held no rating, was 2-2 his last 4 fights and the year before this contest he lost 7 straight fights.
    3) Baby Arizmendi W10 - Held no rating at 147 but was the #4 rated lightweight. A featherweight most of his career. This bout was scheduled for 10 with California recognition only. The NYSAC would not give it its blessing as a welterweight title fight.
    4) Bobby Pacho KO4 - a career journeyman - everytime he stepped up in class he lost.
    5) Lew Feldman KO1 - a career lightweight who was slaughtered in 5 by Armstrong a year earlier.
    6) Davey Day KO12 - I love Davey Day, but he was a career lightweight who went right back to fighting lightweights the remainder of his career. Gave a valiant effort against Armstrong but never weighed more than a couple of pounds over 135.
    7) Ernie Roderick W15 - a good solid welterweight title defense.
    8) Al Manfredo (again) KO4 - scheduled for 10 and fought in Iowa where there was no commission.
    9) Howard Scott KO2 - scheduled for 10 but they weighed in within the poundage to say the title was at stake. Scott had won 1 of his last 11 fights.
    10) Richie Fontaine KO3 - lost 3 out of his last 4. Was a career featherweight/lightweight.
    11) Jimmy Garrison W10 - scheduled for 10. Jimmy was a career lightweight who weighed in within the poundage.
    12) Bobby Pacho (again) KO4 - receives this title shot 7 months after his last one. Had lost his last 3 to get this title shot.
    13) Jimmy Garrison (again) KO7 - scheduled for 10. Weighed in within the poundage.
    14) Joe Gnouly KO5 - A career lightweight who weighed in at 135 1/2.
    15) Pedro Montanez KO9 - I'm going to cut Henry some slack on this one. Montanez made his bones at lightweight but had reinvented himself at welterweight. He went 12-1 in 1939 losing only to Davey Day on a cut eye of a bout he was winning. Moreover, although unrated by Ring Mag, he held a #3 rating in the NBA rankings at welterweight. I would give this a thumbs up.
    16) Paul Junior KO7 - a career lightweight who had only recently moved to 147 (2 months earlier he won the New England lightweight title).
    17) Ralph Zanelli KO5 - a career journeyman, but he did go 9-1 his last 10 fights, albeit against unexceptional talent save for the loss against Slugger White.
    18) Paul Junior (again) KO3 - after having been slaughtered in 7 by Armstrong 2 months earlier he gets a rematch.
    19) Phil Furr KO4 - a career journeyman who lost 3 out of his last 4. In '38-'39 he had lost 11 straight.
    20) Fritzie Zivic L15 - a good solid welterweight title defense.

    So that's it. My intent here was not to besmirch the great name of Henry Armstrong, but I wouldn't be lauding his title defenses. 4 out of 20 I found acceptable. Maybe some of you would give his title reign a pass or possibly think I was too critical on some of these 'challengers'. But I'll tell you what does annoy me. Again, I am a stickler for those who've earned their opportunity and those who have not. And what gets my goat is, do you know who was in the top ten when Henry was defending against these guys? Holman Williams, Cocoa Kid, Charley Burley and Jimmy Leto. 4 fighters that are generally picked as some of the greatest welterweights never to win the title. Hell, even a chance would have been nice.
     
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