Henry Armstrong = fantastic fighter!

Yet you think higher of Mayweather despite accomplishing far less in his weight classes and ducking a larger amount of fighters?

 

Both avoided a few fights, avoiding high risk low reward fights happened in Armstrongs time aswell as today but the myth is he took on all comers, which he did not.

I don't think Armstrong beat anyone Mayweather wouldn't beat. I also don't think his long list of Welter title defenses mean that much because most aren't that good.

Suppose Mayweather fought 20 times a year, fought Gatti/Ukral/Brussel level fighters every 2 weeks, would that impress you? Thats basically what Armstrong was doing

I see Mayweather as a more talented fighter than Armstrong, who I rate as great but flawed and less complete

 

If Armstrong fought who Floyd fought he wouldn't have a loss or a close fight.

Armstrong lost to Lou Ambers, but Lou Ambers is a much better fighter than Castillo and Armstrong only lost because he was robbed and had a heap of points deducted from him. There was no controversy as to who most people think won that fight, unlike the Castilllo fight.

And Armstrong's Dela Hoya fight was the Barney Ross fight, and he didn't scrape by with a split decision, he put the mother of all beat downs on Ross.

If Mayweather was fighting as frequently as Armstrong was, I can see Floyd losing to the likes of Ambers (legitimately), Angott, Zivic, Montanez, Larkin and Jack and I'm just talking about a prime Mayweather, not one that hanged around past his used-by date like Hank did.

 

You can mention the fighters Armstrong didn't face but then when you look at the ones he did face and really when you put them up against the ones Mayweather faced, it becomes a laughing exercise.

There's no more parity in saying both Armstrong and Mayweather failed to fight some fighters as there is in saying Usain Bolt and Tyson Gay are both sprinters.

 

1. Disagree, Delahoya that Mayweather faced beats Armstrong who just gives away too much height and size to a Delahoya who weighs 160 on fight night and combined skill, power and speed that would be too much for the much smaller Armstrong who wouldn't have the defense to cope.

Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Hatton all have decent shots to beat Armstrong, the man lost to worse fighters

2. Ambers does not look better than Castillo on film and Castillo weighs 150-155 on fight night giving a much larger proposition. Its a myth that Mayweather-Castillo 1 was a gift anyway, Castillo didn't do anything for the first 5rounds and said as much himself after that he needed to start faster.

3. Barney Ross was a none punching natural lightweight with a 27% stoppage percentage. He happened to hold the Welterweight crown but is as weak a champ at Welter as Judah or Baldomir.

Armstrong did not suffer a massive size advantage in this fight that Mayweather regularly suffered. Corrales at 130 had a greater size advantage over Floyd than Ross had over Armstrong, remember Corrales put on 17lbs after weigh ins, Floyd put on 2-4lbs.

Mayweather would have beaten Ross pretty easily

4. Supposition, the facts are in his prime Armstrong lost to:

Baby Arizmendi (twice)
Casanova
Davey Abad
Joe Conde
Ritchie Fontaine
Tony Chavez
Lou Ambers
Zivic (twice)

Yes he did fight allot, but some of those names are pretty weak, but I suppose if your fighting allot you have off nights. Armstrong was supposedly past his prime when he lost to Zivic, if that so why does he beat Zivic down the road?

 

That DLH was no better than Ceferino Garcia. I think Armstrong can stop him actually. DLH basically gassed in a stinker of a fight against Mayweather. How's he going to go with Hank on his ass all night?

Like who and like when? Assuming Armstorng ain't shot, all those fights are one sided beatdowns for him. LMFAO@losing to Judah.

Ambers does look better than Castillo on film imo. Better speed of hand and foot, more agressive and tough as nails.

I agree that it's a myth that Castillo-Mayweather is a gift. It could havegone either way. It's also a myth that most had Mayweather winning that fight. Has he ever come up as the consensus winner on a poll conducted on that fight?

Agree, because Judah and Baldomir would of course beat Jimmy McLarnin (twice), Ceferino Garica (thrice), Frankie Klick, Henry Woods and Chuck Woods.

One of the worst calls ever PP.

What do you know about what weight Armstrong's opponents gained by fight time to make such a comment?

I doubt it.

You're adding in fights clearly not part of Armstrong's prime and some of them were bull**** losses on top of it.

Same reason Sugar Ray Robinson beat Fullmer. Greats can find a way to win sometimes. Doesn't mean they are not past their primes.

 

1. Delahoya certainly achieved more than Garcia and is stylistically more problematic, in that he's rangy, bigger, faster hands and is more likely to stick and move. at a 133lb Armstrong stopping a 160lb+ Delahoya, Armstrong isn't even a power puncher he's a pressure fighter. Allot is made of Garcia having a Middleweight claim, but Garcia is ofcourse a natural welter himself. Credit where credits due a great fighter none the less

2. Corrales, Castillo and Hatton would have the same advantages over Armstrong that Zivic did. Usually when 2 pressure fighters meet the bigger, stronger, harder hitting 1 wins out, like it or not those 3 all have those qualities over the smaller Armstrong. Judahs speed and power combination is something Armstrong never saw until SRR who reportedly carried him.

3. Castillo was certainly more aggressive than Ambers, Ambers was faster but most were faster than Castillo

4. I honestly doubt most General Forum posters have watched PBF-JLC1 - the first time I saw both PBF-JLC fights I assumed the second fight was the robbery after having it closer as I actually had the first 8-4 to Mayweather. I've scored it 6-6, then 7-5 on second viewing, Castillo gave away too many early rounds but won his rounds bigger.

5. I'll reiterate that both Judah and Ross were weaker champs. Judah at his best would beat a plentitude of fighters from those times, watch Judah at 140 his workrate was far better. Against Mayweather he was very impressive. Judah is the biggest waste of talent in reason years because he has more raw athletic ability than Mayweather. I can't see Barney Ross outboxing Spinks, can you?

6. Weight Draining and adding 10-20lbs is a new phenomenon. In Modern times they have weigh ins 36hours prior to the fight, in Armstrong's time they had it a few hours prior to the fight. Having that extra 36hours means your not weakened when you lose 15lbs of water weight and have time to add it back on. Thats why Castillo/Corrales/Hatton weighed in around 155+ but weighing in at 135-140. I see it particularly impressive that Mayweather fought at the weight he weighed in giving up 10-15lbs, much like Armstrong did at Welter upwards. Mayweather was fighting a welterweight in his 130lb fight against COrrales, a light middle against Castillo, a middleweight against Hatton and a super middleweight against Delahoya.

7. What tools has Ross got to bother Mayweather? What does he do better? I see Mayweather as doing EVERYTHING better than Ross and winning every round a a result

8. These losses were taken starting on his 33rd fight, 3years as a pro and 10months before his first title (3years prior to his 3world titles, which is surely his exact prime?), at any rate the losses are all near prime

Baby Arizmendi (twice)
Casanova
Davey Abad
Joe Conde
Ritchie Fontaine
Tony Chavez
Lou Ambers
Zivic (twice)

But again if your fighting every 2 weeks a loss is more likely. However I see Armstrong as far more beatable and less complete than Duran, Mayweather and Pepp. Pity Armstrong never fought Pepp, not calling that a duck it would have been a nice piece of history though

9. Some of Armstrongs best wins came after his losses to Zivic. Its hard to say how much the heavy schedule took out of Armstrong over his 25fight 2year championship stint but allot of his fights were little more than sparring matches or walk overs. The quantity does make it look more impressive than what it was because the quality of some opponents was pretty poor although some would be gruelling fights no doubt. Does that make him significantly past prime? Its hard to stay? Would Zivic beat a prime Armstrong? Possibly. Would Burley beat a prime Armstrong? Yes

 

You think Armstrong loses to Judah, Hatton and Castillo?

Lmfao. :rofl

 

the guy is a clown ,he should have your avatar.

 

Nah, he is just very biased towards certain fighters, just like quite a few are on here , in his case those two are Jones and Mayweather. The most time he´s quite knowledgable.

 

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