Henry Cooper: Patterson faster than Ali

Ali and Patterson were the fastest punching heavyweights? Amazing since Patterson was 170 pounds which means he was a light heavyweight who fought at heavyweight. So him being faster than Ali isn't a surprise or anything special.

Also choklab is right. Ali punches were fast but alot of them were just slapping punches. I am sure a lot of fighters could of thrown fast slapping punches too.

 

Michael Dokes and Mike Tyson may have something to say to that:good!

 

Few big guys could even ever throw that fast with slapping punches. There wee ton's of Ali imitators, some would do that if they could since it was effective. Also Ali could throw hard & finishing punches very fast, this was true with Liston, Williams, & many he dropped-Folley had not lost for years, he did not go down from pitter pats.

Ali's foot speed was substantially slower in the '70's. His hand speed was not 100% but still largely intact for years, & he more often "sat down" on his punches.

 

Folley wasn't a heavyweight so knocking him down proved what? Williams was washed up and slow as a snail. Liston was slow and plodding.

Ali was just as quick on his feet when he came back. He just weighed more and fought bigger and better opponents.

He did "sit down" on his punches more because as I said he was facing guys his own size who could cut off the ring so it was no point in him moving because he would get tired. Ali stated this after his Foreman fight. He planned on moving and moving but Foreman was too quick at cutting off the ring so if he kept moving he would get tired and be knocked out.

 

Sorry but no. Faster than SRR? We're talking different weights. Let's stay on heavies OK? Floyd had faster hand speed than Ali AND faster combinations. The only trouble with Floyd was his obviously smaller stature against the big boys AND the fact that, given his own inner-demons, he so seldom let us see his lightning! Ali himself said Floyd was faster. I'm the Floyd 'nut-hugger' on board here and if you want a good example of him not bringing out his best simply look at his fights with Harris and London. 24 rounds to stop both of them???
The only reason this thread is even brought up is because of what I've just mentioned.

 

Floyd hands down faster

 

Floyd was lightning fast in his day.

 

Tyson like Patterson had faster hands than Ali as far as pure handspeed, but no one was as smooth as Ali when it came to fluid combinations and footwork.

Ali's foot speed is unmatched

 

Patterson stayed on the canvas most of the time.
It was hard for him to get leverage hitting upward toward the lights.

 

It depends on what era of Floyd your viewing. Look at his fight with Archie at Patterson's zenith and his combo's are a blur. Later on in the sixties he had a little better then average speed for a heavy, but in the fifties I've seen none faster with hands, not Ali and not Louis.

 

Folley fought as & had not lost to HWs for years, that & other fights proved how Ali did pack a punch. Liston & Williams were prettyy slow, though still very dangerous, though you can see the speed & effect of the punches there. Most all HWs rarely if wever fought prime or near prime guys, Ali more than anyone did in the '70's, when past HIS prime.

Ali had absolutely lost significant foot speed in the '70's, this is easy to see. Also D'amato has talked extensively about this. A major reason he needed to (as you rightly stated) not just dance & move against Foreman.

When Ali first came back he barely weighed more-was 212 vs. Williams, 215 in the FOTC, though he looked bigger overall. Only gradually did he gain a very few lbs., then after Manilla sometimes got a bit chubby. But he had lost the super fast foot movement from the '60's, even if still fairly fast of foot & very fast hands.

 

Punching Floyd was faster and better quality. Footwork and workrate Ali was faster and better.
And bigger.

Footwork and punching are seperate things. I am sure this thread is about punching isn't it?

 

agreed. floyd had the fastest punches of any heavyweight. louis and ali next

 

Ali weighed the same 212 when he "came back" against Quarry as he did with Folley and about the same with Bonnavena and Frazier, he didn't weigh more coming back. His hand speed was at the same level against Jerry and then somewhat less the rest of his career and his foot speed was never the same after 1967. Later on he put on weight but did not sit down on his punches until he fought Foreman coming off the ropes for the ko, and after that only against Jack Bodell and in Frazier 3.

 

Interesting, you seem to have seen these fights at the time timmers. I did not know Jack Bodell, though he appears to never have fought Ali, you must be thinking of someone else? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Bodell[/url]