Henry Cooper

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by markclitheroe, Mar 30, 2014.


  1. markclitheroe

    markclitheroe TyrellBiggsnumberonefan. Full Member

    1,821
    27
    Sep 14, 2013
    How would you rate him ?
    Gave superman a fright but spent most of his career at British Euro level.Before my time so considered appraisals welcome.
     
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,495
    2,150
    Oct 22, 2006
    People bang on about the cuts, but look at the record, from 57 onwards, the Ali fights aside, Cooper did not lose on cuts. His problem was getting knocked out and outpointed by any class he met. The one glorious exception was when he outpointed a Folley near the top of his game. But as was Sir 'enry's weakness, he was duly flattened in the rematch.
     
  3. markclitheroe

    markclitheroe TyrellBiggsnumberonefan. Full Member

    1,821
    27
    Sep 14, 2013
    Tbooze ..always like yr opinions..so give us a bit more detail...what was it about Henry that held him back..always looked fight and courageous...what apart from cuts were his weakneses ...what were his strengths ? Give us a full apraisal..only really seen his Ali fights and he certainly would have given superman bother but for the cuts..
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,654
    Dec 31, 2009
    Henry was a world class fighter. Aside from the actual champions he was as good as anyone. Sure he could drop fights to the top contenders but he beat them as well. People go on about him being Euro level but he was as good as a anyone outside of the champions. Machen, folley, Harris, Jones, chuvalo ..He was up there with them. What American contenders were really a level better than Henry Cooper? the British and European chalengers he beat were world rated too. Erskine beat pastrano, London beat Folly, Richardson beat Baker, Walker beat Spencer. Mildenberger beat machen and so on. These were the elite of the day. Was Henry world champion material? No.
    Was he world class? Yes.
     
  5. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,495
    2,150
    Oct 22, 2006
    Cooper was naturally handicapped by being just that bit too small, even for a Heavyweight 50-55 years ago. His 'fundamentals' were sound, topped off by a world class left hook, but he fought in the upright classic European style. This meant he could add a bit to his punches, but his defence was loose, and along with his relatively small stature, his punch resistance was below par for a world class fighter.

    Now for a slight contradiction: Although not stopped often (post 57) due to cuts, he was often cut. This meant he did have to adapt a more offensive style. But in my defence I cannot think of a fight Cooper was robbed of, due to cuts in the 60s.

    Add all this to the 'misfortune' in fighting in a golden era of Heavyweight boxing, that is why I am relatively harsh with Sir 'enry. But I cannot deny his popularity, and the respect many fans in the UK had for him, both hardcore, casual and even those who could write down what they knew of the sport on a postage stamp.
     
  6. Broncobuster

    Broncobuster Member Full Member

    156
    0
    Mar 21, 2014
    :cool:Our Enry was a true gentleman in and out of the ring,he had 2 main problems when fighting,getting cut, and being small for a heavyweight, his weight was less than 14stone sometimes just over 13 stone, just imagine a 17 stone Cooper hitting Ali with a left hook as he did in there fist fight, he won and lost against the best of his time, was always fit and was very proud of the 3 longs-dale belts he won,not bad for a fruit and veg market trader.:cool:
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,731
    29,078
    Jun 2, 2006
    Cooper was a level below these guys imo.His best win was over Folley who dropped him and then went right hand crazy trying to do it again this let Cooper back in the fight.Folley set the record straight in the rematch. And old Floyd sparked Cooper ,Ingo kod him too. Cooper would never fight Chuvalo for the Empire and Commonwealth titles. Cooper was beaten by fringe guys like Amos Johnson, Joe Bygraves and Roger Rischer. He was too much for the second tier but not good enough for the first.
    Richardson beat a Baker with bad hands he had won 6 of his last 13 fights.. Machen was past it when Mildenberger beat him, he had not won a fight in 2 years .

    Spencer went into a terminal tailspin after losing to Quarry he had a further 8 fights and lost them all, he was done, when Walker beat him.
     
  8. AREA 53

    AREA 53 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,466
    83
    Apr 10, 2006
    It may be true that Whilst Henry was something of a Lion in Europe.. But just another House-cat where American Heavy's were concerned I think the Reason there's a lot of love and respect for Henry Cooper, is Talents Aside, because He paid the fans he highest compliment and respect he could, he trained diligently, and never entered the ring less than 100% fit - and good result or Bad, always gave his best effort and that's something an awful lot of more naturally talented heavyweights can not say.

    At one stage Circa 69/70 as i recall Henry had signed to face Jimmy Ellis but had to pull out with a Knee problem, with Henry you knew the Injury was Bona-fide
    others might of kept quite suffered a defeat, and taken the Money, then trotted out excuses, Henry never wanted to short change the fans who were paying their hard earned money, so Talented yes, infallible No, but a very Honest Diligent Professional. A true credit to the Game
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,731
    29,078
    Jun 2, 2006
    I met him a few times when he used to do the commentary for the BBC. A really nice, modest, unassuming guy.
     
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,369
    12,705
    Mar 2, 2006
    I believe the reason he pulled out of the Ellis fight was because the BBB of C, who were not affiliated to the WBA, threatened Cooper with suspension if he went through with the match. Cooper complied but returned one of his Lonsdale belts in protest along with his British title. It's hard to imagine that by todays standards - with a crack at the heavyweight title in the offing - but Henry did so. Perhaps he thought the BBB of C was still his bread and butter, I don't know. I believe they did the same with Brian London before his fight with Patterson and he just told them where to go and went through with it.
     
  11. AREA 53

    AREA 53 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,466
    83
    Apr 10, 2006
    Scartissue - as i seem to recall Ken Buchanan was not Backed by the BBBofC when he challenged Ismeal Luguna for his World Title, Ken Won and made a few succesful Defences but with the Boards hand still coming out for their fees, as Ken once said, all the time he was winning he was Britains Ken Buchanan...and when on the rare occasion he lost he suddenly became "Scotland's" Ken Buchanan !
     
  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,369
    12,705
    Mar 2, 2006
    Area53, I agree with Ken and Brian London. If you have a chance at the world title you take it. To hell with the Board. What can they do, fine you? This was for the world title and despite the fact that I still think Ellis would have beaten him, Henry had a better shot at Ellis than he did against Ali.
     
  13. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,495
    2,150
    Oct 22, 2006
    The 'Cartel' along with the BBB of C may of 'blackballed' him. Although very popular, Cooper still needed the sport to make the money he was used to.
     
  14. Vinegar Hill

    Vinegar Hill Guest

    I agree with those who say Henry couldn't cut it against the top guys. His problem was getting knocked out rather than the cuts although he was a bleeder.
    It didn't seem to matter though in those days a fighter got knocked out dusted himself down and just got on with his career, now it's a disaster, the end of the world.
    I always think Henry doesn't quite get enough credit though for his two efforts against Ali. If you watch those fights he really did give Ali a lot of trouble. The left hook he decked Ali with was a genuine legitimate punch of high quality there was no luck about it.
    He made Ali pay for clowning around and retreating with his hands down.
     
  15. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    56,092
    10,500
    Jul 28, 2009
    He never fought Adonis Stevenson, I'm sorry.